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The Grant County Record
in Grant County · County Council, budget hearing night 3, August 26, 2026 · 2026-08-26 · full transcript
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    0:00  heard from Judge Meeks last week about the judge is all agreeing to make the same request. Um I can't add much other
    0:08  than saying that uh I've had a great staff and uh I think they are deserving of a raise and they'd appreciate
    0:15  anything um that you might be able to approve.
    0:21  One question. I I do see your replacement for next year and uh does
    0:28  does he uh agree with with this particular budget? We didn't really discuss it, but he didn't speak for himself.
    0:37  I do agree. And uh I also would add to that that there's been some rumor that I would be replacing staff and that that's
    0:44  not true at all, but the staff is there, works hard, and they do a good job. Um, and I think these figures would help
    0:52  retain those staff and that would be my suggestion. So, um, I'm sure they're going to be happy to know that you said
    1:00  that in a post meeting. So, I appreciate that. I appreciate that rumor, but they were they were not worried. Yeah,
    1:08  he's going to be a great judge. Thank you. We we certainly appreciate uh your years of service county. Appreciate this. Thank you. How many is it judge?
    1:20  24. Oh, we came together four full terms. So, it's been an honor. Here we go.
    1:28  Does anybody have any questions for Judge Tubs?
    1:37  All right. Um if not the chair would entertain a motion uh regarding uh supplies category
    1:45  2, category 3 and category 4 as presented move. All right. Thank you, Mr. Lemon. Second.
    1:53  And thank you, Mr. Kadell.
    1:56  We're in a second. Any questions or comments from the council?
    2:01  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. I.
    2:05  Those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you.
    2:13  Next on our agenda is uh health department and Google public health services.
    2:25  Mine should be equally simple. We have minor changes from 25 to 26. um in the 1159
    2:32  I would like to increase our legal services by $2,000. We are leaning on him very heavily um having to sight more homeowners into court over over housing.
    2:45  Um and he's asked for an increase to cover that additional work. As far as pay
    2:53  increases, I had to have this budget submitted to the state by the the 1st of May. And at
    3:01  that time, the this the talk amongst the county was don't ask, prepare for cuts.
    3:07  So, we did not. If this board finds that there are funds for pay increases, my staff works quite hard at their job,
    3:15  too, and we would appreciate people consideration.
    3:19  You have any questions? I'd be happy to answer.
    3:23  Who is your attorney that is involved in legal services? Okay.
    3:28  Question I got in every office we have to do all this. I know.
    3:34  Citing more homeowners. Is that uh landlords or is it owner occupied or do you know a split?
    3:41  Well, it's more owner occupied than landlords. Um, landlords typically will show up in court and if we show up too, they'll settle.
    3:50  But, um, it's mostly homeowners. Really? Or land owners. Yeah. Okay.
    3:55  So, no one's suing you. You're doing correct. Correct. We're just trying to get people to clean up their property.
    4:04  45% increase in service. How does David in every office we have?
    4:10  But if you look, he went a very long time with no injury. Well, I understand, but I'd like again, how can you give every office we have? Well, somebody else has to give it up.
    4:17  He's been our attorney for about 15 years, and public health law is pretty complicated, and he gets it. So, I'm not saying he wouldn't be surprised
    4:26  he can do every har does, too.
    4:33  He does, Harry. I believe I think he does.
    4:37  But in all honesty, we have to work so closely with area plan when we site people in the court. It's beneficial that he does both
    4:47  the other day involved heavily judge magistr
    4:58  what he does there. I haven't gone to the extent of adding all of his line items to see what they add up to. I don't know what that is. I need to do that sometime. Do you know what that is?
    5:05  I do not know. I'm not off the top of my head, but I can. Can you tell him from your records what what his 1099 was or whatever?
    5:12  Um, and not from this computer.
    5:15  Okay. All right. That's fine. I just He doesn't realize I'm sure he has that time to do them all. I guess he does.
    5:23  Okay. Obviously, she's happy with his service. Well, I'm sure we all are.
    5:27  How many How much time does he have in a day?
    5:32  And again, public health law is very complicated.
    5:34  Not disagreeing with that. Not disagreeing with that at all. I just he's coming how many times can he stretch himself get up here with an office. What's that?
    5:42  Stretch himself then. Stretches himself then.
    5:45  Yeah, real thin. I just don't know how I whatever the uh chair would entertain a motion regarding uh supplies category 2
    5:53  and uh other services and charges category 3 as presented. All right. Thank you, Mr. Winkle.
    6:03  Do we have a second? Thank you, Mr. Hicks.
    6:10  Have a motion, a second. Any other questions or comments?
    6:15  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I.
    6:18  I. And those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Thank you.
    6:25  And next we'll go.
    6:28  So this one the only changes from last year or from this year to next. Um the professional services we've zeroed out.
    6:35  That was for a data plan that we no longer need. And I would like to add $1,000 to repair and maintenance.
    6:42  We just our fleet of vehicles is larger and needs oil changes and window washer fluid and that's fine.
    6:50  How old are your vehicles?
    6:52  We have newer vehicles. Our oldest one is probably 3 years old. Actually, I'll be coming to you in September. We have one totaled out that we're looking to replace.
    7:04  because of an accident. H because of an accident.
    7:07  She was hit and and we have the insurance check. I just need to transfer a little bit of money to add to the insurance check. She is. Yes. Yeah.
    7:14  Minimal. I mean, she got up pretty good, but what did you do for repair in the past?
    7:28  Well, warranty warranty might have been warranty.
    7:34  when the highway department was doing our oil changes, they now charge for them. Um, we out of our 1159 fund, we do
    7:42  have some repair and maintenance that I've been paying now.
    7:46  Like I just had to put new tires on our truck, you know, expensive. So, just trying to not cut myself so thin. $1,000 is not going to cover that.
    7:55  It did not. It did not.
    8:04  chair to entertain a motion regarding supplies category 2 and other services and charges category 3 as presented.
    8:13  Thank you. We have a second. Thank you, Mr. Lum. Any other questions or comments?
    8:23  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed. Same sign. Motion carries. Thank you.
    8:30  And then just real quick in that fund as well, I didn't ask for raises, but if the county sees fit, that would actually be state dollars, but but I would like
    8:38  that to be equal across all house department. Thank you.
    8:42  Didn't we have more funds in the health department than this in the past that we looked at? Yes, my budget was cut by $1.1 million.
    8:48  So last year other grant type things or we I mean we had other types of funds involved. I think when so there is a preparedness grant
    8:56  that um actually the contract just got signed and I got the budget for that we're bringing to the September meeting.
    9:01  Um there were tobacco grants that when we accepted this I call it HFI money, you call it public health services fund.
    9:12  When we accepted those funds, the tobacco grants went away. they got absorbed into these funds and each health department had to choose they
    9:20  were going to continue to receive the health the tobacco funds or the public health service. So it's kind of incorporated in the other. Yes.
    9:29  All right. Thank you. You're welcome. Next on our agenda we have spir 3.
    9:38  Evening judge. Good evening.
    9:44  The only modification requested uh to uh Grant Spir 3's budget is in printing and
    9:51  and and we have requested $500 for many many years and we're I'm requesting
    9:58  1,500 due to the fact that uh we have a referee court. A referee court makes uh numerous copies of documents that need
   10:07  to be addressed uh in the court uh with defendants. They need to take copies with them. uh all sorts of of copies
   10:14  printing that's generated out of a referee court and also due to the fact that uh for the first time in the history of grants per court 3 uh we have
   10:22  12 uh member juries and the reason that printing goes up with 12 member juries is we have to send out 75 jury summones
   10:31  and so uh there's a lot more copies that are generated due to the fact that we have a court that I supervise along with
   10:40  12 member juries very recently we had uh an attempted murder jury trial. And so these these trials with more juries require more jury sentences. And so that
   10:48  that's really the only uh additional expense. And I and I believe that uh we we requested a transfer of some funds to
   10:57  make sure that we were able to to to pay those printing fees uh previously this year and Jarvis helped us with that. And so that would make sure we wouldn't have
   11:05  to make those adjustments mid year. Um I'm also requesting as all as as all uh members of the judiciary are requesting uh is uh if the if the council would
   11:14  consider a pay raise for the position of court reporter. Uh the position of court reporter and I know that I I I come
   11:22  before uh the the council every year ask for a raise. I I truly believe that the
   11:29  position of court order is is underpaid when you consider uh similarly situated counties. When you talk about Howard County, Henry County, Wayne County,
   11:37  counties that look a lot like Grant County, uh we are not um up to where they are in paying uh their court
   11:46  reporter. And that position is of vital importance because they handle matters of confidentiality. There's so many
   11:53  different responsibilities uh that they each handle individually um different assignments that they have and um and
   12:01  the requirements to stay late for jury trials and things of that nature to where um if we could if if Grant County
   12:07  could get to the point where we're uh having a similar uh pay schedule as Howard, Henry, or Wayne County.
   12:15  Certainly, I would appreciate that. And $50,000 is going to do that for the position court reporter. All
   12:29  right. Anybody have any questions or emails?
   12:33  Not the chair would entertain a motion regarding uh supplies category 2, other services and charges category 3 and capital category 4 as presented.
   12:47  Thank you, Mr. Brinkle. We have a second. All right. Thank you, Mr. Hicks.
   12:55  Anyone have any questions or comments for the judge?
   13:00  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. And those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. All right. Thank you. Appreciate your tenency. Thank you.
   13:12  Next on our agenda, we have the circuit court.
   13:21  But we have the third coming.
   13:25  Is she coming for circuit court or we doing you guys not? No, that's not me, is it?
   13:32  Well, if he's not here though, if he's not here, then we can do Yeah.
   13:39  I don't know where my head is. No, you're okay. It was this morning. Yeah.
   13:44  Yeah. No, I'm not coming. judge would not would not entertain that. Okay. So you so I'm okay.
   13:51  Yeah. We'll go ahead and do yours and then you get here. All right. Yeah.
   13:58  I uh Thank you for letting me talk.
   14:02  And um I have request a slight increase in salaries, but I know we're not discussing that at this time.
   14:11  Um so where would you like to begin? Uh it doesn't look like you made any additional requests in the general fund
   14:20  for a clerk, but salaries, I mean, you can still, you know, comment on on why you're requesting an increase. Probably
   14:27  just having an amazing staff. They do a lot of good work for the uh county, for the citizens, uh for the courts.
   14:37  Everything, as I've said over and over again, you're I'm sure you're tired of hearing it, that everything that goes on in the courthouse passes through the
   14:44  clerk's office at least twice, sometimes more before it goes to the courts. And then when it's done with the courts, the prosecutor's office, the uh sheriff's
   14:53  department, you know, it all passes through our hands and uh they do they do a good job for the county and I think they're well deserving of compensation.
   15:05  So, and they are thankful.
   15:09  I've heard that even just today that they are thankful for the jobs that they have.
   15:17  All right. Does anybody have any questions regarding the general fund for the clerk?
   15:26  If not, the chairman would entertain a motion regarding supplies category 2, other services and charges category 3,
   15:33  and capital outlays category 4 as presented. So move. All right. Thank you, Mr. K.
   15:42  We have a second.
   15:45  All right. Thank you, Mr. Wing. A motion and a second. Questions or comments from the council?
   15:52  Hearing none. All in favor, please sign by saying I. I. Those opposing carries. Thank you. Next round voters
   16:01  which is all salaries.
   16:08  Skip down to general fund election.
   16:13  I think we see increases because we didn't have an election last year. So we're although not asking for um really
   16:21  any more than what we had the previous year. So, um there
   16:29  and if I'm getting ahead of myself, just slow me down cuz I'm doing that tonight apparently. Um down in at Capital Outlines.
   16:43  Am I going to Am I out of turn here?
   16:47  All right. these um the machines that we have. I can't tell you how old they are, but I know they've got quite a bit of
   16:53  age on them. Um to the point that a microte is our vendor. They are amazing.
   17:01  Um but they um are getting a bit obsolete even to the even to the point that uh replacement parts and things are are getting harder to obtain.
   17:14  So I believe in your packet there is a um quote for new machines.
   17:21  What I was requesting was that um we just start a fund which Angie, thank you
   17:28  very much, has um set that fund um up for us with with the No, I'm getting out
   17:36  of term but here see I but with the option of just adding monies to that
   17:43  possibly until we are and I asked you to do that. You you what I did? Well, what I did was I added
   17:49  an account to your election budget for these voting machines.
   17:56  If you want to have a fund created, that would require going to the commissioners and having them do a resolution to
   18:04  create this fund and then the county council could opt to fund it or not and
   18:12  transfer funds to it. So, or we could just keep it here.
   18:17  But my thought process was because you can see it's it's a large sum of money.
   18:23  So what some clerks have done is they've just added some money they requested uh from the
   18:30  council commissioners an amount of money to be added to that until we were able to purchase the new machines.
   18:40  One thing I have uh heard from our vendor is that the pocket of machines that they have available, I think
   18:48  they've got like 130 or something of those left. Our county has 105.
   18:55  When that pocket of machines that they currently have is gone, then they will
   19:01  be getting a new shipment, which will probably mean that this quote will
   19:08  increase. So that's just something. So that's that's all I've got to say about that. You know, it's up to the commissioners and to you.
   19:15  Yeah. I remember some time back you sent an email. Yes.
   19:19  That talked about maybe some funding options. It sounded like this is this is the entire amount that we would need to pay for the new machines, right?
   19:25  Okay. Was there something that am I thinking wrong? There was something you talked about some options in there as well. amounts to accumulate
   19:32  for for one and that's what I was trying to say but not very eloquently is that uh if the commissioners and this body
   19:40  chose to add a sum I think some said that they were adding like you know $5,000 to it each year whatever until
   19:49  they until it grew to where they could make that purchase but then also so that's if that's correct
   19:56  but was the company uh They I guess I'll say being flexible the amount they wanted to collect and when
   20:03  they they would give us um payment options as where we could um make a
   20:11  payment this year or make a last year and then make another payment. We wouldn't have to pay the lump sum all at once.
   20:16  Was there any advantage to I mean no interest or any advantage to doing it all up front as opposed to doing it in those payments? I don't believe so. I don't believe so.
   20:24  But that's something I'll definitely talk about. So that's why I had asked and I know I sent it late. Um, I sent a
   20:30  note. Um, Steve Shamo, the uh, my micro vote rep, said he would be happy to come
   20:38  and speak tonight and I sent a note concerning that and didn't hear back.
   20:42  So, I assumed we were going to be too busy for him to come, but but he would be happy to come and explain um, you
   20:51  know, the ins and outs of how that would could possibly work.
   20:57  Anyway, You didn't you weren't sure what type of help these were? Haven't been around for a while. You're saying all Yeah,
   21:04  I remember we had back when we bought these we had like some state help to get that done, didn't we?
   21:09  I don't know. That was way before my time.
   21:11  Is that a bill? We had some state grants some of state funding. Not so seems like we did.
   21:19  It's been a while.
   21:20  This amount is for replacement of all 105 machines, right? But are those machines various ages or are they all
   21:29  purchased at the same exact I believe they're all pretty much the same. We got them all at the same time.
   21:35  Is if we were to purchase say 20 machines a year, is there compatibility issues in the way those machines
   21:42  process? Do you need to purchase all of them at one time or can we stagger a purchase like that to get similar types
   21:49  that process the same way? I'm thinking that they would be the same because the ones we've got now, you know, have been
   21:57  um you know, they just are changing or updating them. I guess more feedback. Yeah, that that would be
   22:05  the the thing is that they they might cost more, but also they were saying that with the new ones coming in, they
   22:15  just because they're new, they would be more expensive, but also the a chip or something inside them. there. Again, Steve would have been a good one to to
   22:24  explain this. Uh, and he'd be glad to come at another meeting to help explain this, but um there's an update in a chip or in the machines.
   22:37  So, in order for us to get 105 machines, we need to come up with that 294. Is that what you're saying? Yeah.
   22:43  Or do they finance? I guess yes. Yes, they they they will work with us. So it makes sense to get all the machines at once. If it's going to cost
   22:52  us more, I would think. Yeah. Right. And plus, if they change something, all those new machines in 5 years, whatever.
   22:57  I don't know. I don't know what that chip think.
   23:01  Steve was trying to explain that to me over at all the same.
   23:07  There's some kind of an update in the newer machines and and they don't we should have or that we shouldn't. I mean, I mean, you know what I'm saying? To me,
   23:16  my first thought is if you have a the number of machines we need available to us now, we just go ahead and get them and get it done. But if it's something that we ought to be waiting on because
   23:24  there's an improvement coming that that that is a possibility. Um although there will be an increase in the amount
   23:33  that is now I'm sorry. How old are the voting machines? That's what I'm not sure.
   23:40  I know every year that anyway 10ish 10 years is pretty much the wal.
   23:49  It sounds like that was the last time you had state funding that would help. I I I guess uh rather than this full 294 I
   23:57  I might throw a number out and say one/ird of that roughly $100,000 because if there's state funding available we should try to get state
   24:04  funding to help us as opposed to all Grant County paying for all of it. or that was back then. Have you heard anything about state funding being available to help us?
   24:12  I haven't, but it might have been unique. You know, we could just leave this line out for now and have this person come in maybe to our September meeting and talk to us
   24:20  about it. We'd be glad to and maybe then we could take action on that in our first October meeting of the October 1st, where the date is. Does
   24:29  that make sense? Not tempted to if we need to buy them from now, maybe with our cash balance, go ahead and get it done. I just get worried though when
   24:37  somebody's got a deal on the state's got something they can do for us every Yeah.
   24:42  Are we having widespread failures right now or not? No, we haven't. As you know,
   24:49  any piece of equipment something goes ary, but uh micro has always been able
   24:55  to come in and and take care of it. What they're saying is that they're getting close to obsolete where it's getting
   25:03  harder for them to have what they need to repair and refurbish. Do we know I'm sorry?
   25:12  No.
   25:13  Do we know? So, of the 130 that Microboat currently has available, those machines, are they the same as the
   25:21  new batch that would come in or is the new batch that's going to come in going to be an upgrade?
   25:26  They're going to be an upgrade, I believe.
   25:28  I guess the other part is if we're buying new machines and we probably want to buy the newest of machines, not Yeah.
   25:34  the ones just sitting on the center parts become an issue for those parts issuing for those. I think it'd be interesting to know how many changes they made.
   25:42  Yeah.
   25:44  Well, like in my world, credit card encryption and PCI compliance, that's a game that's changing every day. So,
   25:51  yeah, definitely the the latest and greatest. so we can at least get maybe the best idea that and it was not my intent to come and ask
   26:00  for this lump sum of money. I just wanted to kind of get on your radar and
   26:07  if we could start pooling a little bit of money into a fund that would be
   26:13  exclusively for these machines and nothing else. It can't be used anywhere else, just set aside in a trust for
   26:20  these machines. then it wouldn't be as big of a burden on the county, you know, when when machines were needed.
   26:29  Well, you mentioned this at least last year that we're going to be looking at this. I I would suggest I'm ready to make a motion, I guess, on this one, but I would move we approve category 2 and
   26:37  category 3 as presented and not take action on category 4. So, we have Yes.
   26:43  a meeting. I'm going to suggest you be on the agenda for our September. Is it the 12th? Whatever. That's the third Wednesday. Yeah.
   26:50  Maybe it's later than that. That's the third Wednesday. The 16th. What is it? 16th.
   26:57  16th. So I would suggest we have him come on 16th and talk about this topic with us and we can decide. Well, I I
   27:04  would say that work session in the first Wednesday in October about what we'll do with the account at that point. Okay. So that's my motion is to approve categories two and three and hold the
   27:14  category 4 later. All right. Thank you, Mr. McCord. Do we have a second to that motion? I'll second that.
   27:20  All right. Thank you, Mr. wrinkle the first and the second. Does anybody have any other questions or comments?
   27:26  One one comment. I would like to know how old the machines are if we ever did create a fund to know how long to amateurize that fund to be able to plan
   27:34  for that next replacement period for those.
   27:36  Makes sense. I guess that's twofold then cuz if we do have to get commissioner approval to approve the fund, we would need that before we go to that fund
   27:44  later if we want to get purch first and then and then get the fund later. But we can decide. You had that meeting in September with the guy and decide we
   27:52  want to purchase some now or we going to do a lump sum. Are we going to do it over time? We can talk about that later.
   27:57  But if we do the fund, we could always do that at a later date even though it's immediately during the budget process. We can do that in 2027 for that matter.
   28:06  Sure.
   28:08  Can I ask time to think about how we want to do that if we want to recommendation? Do I want to um have Steve come and speak to you this body
   28:17  first and the commissioners?
   28:20  I already there first. We wanted to come to talk to us next next month in September September 16th.
   28:29  Yep. All right. Thank you. And we have a first and a second.
   28:32  Hearing no other questions. Uh all in favor please signify by saying I. Those same sign. Motion carries.
   28:41  And next we have the clerk's perpetuation fund.
   28:48  Take no changes as far as supplies or equipment
   29:07  to entertain a motion regarding supplies category 2 and capital outlays category 4 as presented.
   29:16  So move. All right. Thank you, Mr. L. Have a second. Second. Thank you, Mr. Card.
   29:26  Any questions or comments from the council?
   29:31  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposing sign. Motion carries.
   29:38  And then the uh 4D incentive fund is only personal services.
   29:47  pass on that. Thank you.
   29:54  See you in September. Crazy.
   30:02  Thank you. All right. Thank you.
   30:06  Yes. And now we're ready for circuit court, your honor.
   30:11  Sorry, you're being generous.
   30:19  Good evening. Evening.
   30:22  Um I I'm going to pass if I could um get you to pass some down there, Jim.
   30:31  Uh budget primarily um the same as previous years with uh just a couple of
   30:41  differences. Obviously, I understand we won't be talking about salaries. Um, and I put my suggestion in there for uh salaries. And then the other one is uh
   30:50  to move some uh money around and to ask for some additional funds for um the
   30:57  guardian advocates uh program. Um and that what I've provided you some information about the program. In
   31:05  essence, what the program does is provide uh guardianship services um for people who don't have anybody to um
   31:13  provide those services uh for them. Um and so, you know, we have
   31:21  um elderly people, we have people who have developmental disabilities and things like that. Just someone who's not there to um provide those services for
   31:30  them. Supreme Court has a program called Vasia um volunteer advocates for seniors and incapacitated adults and they the
   31:39  Supreme Court partially funds that program um and so uh then there are providers that will do that work and so
   31:46  in our area guardian advocates and this is some information that I've given you um provides those services. John and
   31:53  Amber um are here uh tonight um as well um and they have um served as uh uh
   32:02  guardians uh and currently doing this work already in Grant County on several cases. And so just wanted to um make
   32:10  that relationship a little more permanent so that we have somebody reliable that we can go to when we have
   32:17  those cases where we have incapacitated adults that we need to u make sure are taken care of in our community. Um
   32:27  Guardian Advocates receives uh support from um other uh counties in the area.
   32:32  We got um Madison, Miami, uh Delaware too. Delaware as well too. So surrounding counties. And so they've
   32:40  been doing this work for some time. Do a nice job, very responsive. Um and so we'd uh like to um just kind of make
   32:49  this uh a formal um relationship. Um at this point, I'm suggesting u $5,000.
   32:58  Um $1,500 would come from my budget. Um, and I am proposing taking those out of
   33:05  um the uh uh 1,000 out of appointed council and 500 out of prom. Um, and then Judge
   33:14  Meeks um also is willing um to um take money
   33:21  out of his budget, a thousand from Appeal Paw Council and a,000 from uh the fund for the uh service dog. Um, and so
   33:31  that would take us to $3500 and then we would just be asking an additional $1,500
   33:39  as well. Um, you may recall that a lot of the sort of collective court things
   33:46  come out of circuit court. So, um, we there was a time when we had different budgets. Every court had its own budget for different things and eventually we
   33:54  sort of consolidated those and so I've kind of had those in my budget. This would be a similar thing. They would not just be available for circuit court use,
   34:02  but be available for any court um in uh Grant County um to use as well.
   34:06  Judge, would you repeat the account you're going to change to I will. So, I'm going to make a note here. So, I have that.
   34:12  I will. So, in my budget, um it would be uh $1,000 out of appointed counsel um
   34:20  which is the bottom one on that top and then uh $500 out of judge prom.
   34:26  Okay. And you mentioned judge me. Judge Meeks. Judge me also and his would be and I don't have his budget here with me. I apologize.
   34:34  I've got a copy of what he's got. You got it? Yeah, you can help me out.
   34:37  Um, so, uh, $1,000 for appeal popper counsel.
   34:43  Let me see.
   34:56  Okay. This this was going to be just where uh appealer council would be 1,000.
   35:02  Okay. And then $1,000 for um the service dog.
   35:10  Um not sure what. Okay. He's got a supplies account for the dog. I think that would be would be it. Yeah.
   35:19  Yeah. And is that why he had reduced that?
   35:24  He already he may have submitted and already reduced. Yeah, he did because he Yeah, that's why he reduced it though.
   35:29  Yes. Okay, that's why. So he was already the appeal reduce.
   35:37  He did. Yeah, they're both reduced.
   35:40  Yeah. Okay. Y Yeah, we're trying to coordinate on it.
   35:43  Y So that's everything really. Everything else is is uh the same and uh happy to
   35:51  answer any questions about the guardianship program or anything else in the budget or anything else about certain court.
   35:59  So I guess then your judge pro Tim account would be 725 correct and 1,000 for appointed council. Correct. Okay.
   36:07  Yes.
   36:08  Just confirming that and and those changes prove they accommodate all the $1,500 of that 5,000 request. A question I guess I had as I was kind of looking
   36:16  at this um is this anywhere similar to what we do with CASA? We have a you have some advocate money we have for CASA in
   36:25  our budget. I can't which it's in but we have that two is two. So we is this something similar to that? Is it relatively separate?
   36:33  Um yeah I mean I think it's I think the concept is similar where um there's a shared um funding relationship between the state and the uh and and the county.
   36:43  Um and the reason I asked you we for a lot of years now way back I'm going to say 10 years or more we stop funding
   36:51  some not for profits you like the uh hearing and looking at blind senior citizens
   36:59  uh some things with some lifeline live stream type things we we decided not to do not for profofit funding I didn't want to start getting down that road but
   37:08  it's like that yeah I know where there are yeah there are you These are actually services that are core. In essence, what we're what it
   37:17  does is provide um you know it are services for people that are you know need the services in uh from our county
   37:26  um and there's not another avenue for them to receive those services. Normally if you have a guardianship you have a family member that steps up or something
   37:33  like that and sometimes people just don't have that. By the way, there was there when I opened that door where you have to start going down that road again through other not for profit.
   37:41  And this is like CASA. It's a court related u I guess I would uh this is not just kind of a not for profit that's not
   37:49  really related to any um any government court function. Um this is a you know this is something that's related to a court function. you know, you can think
   37:58  of it um similar to I guess public defenders um where it's indigent services um you know and I think it
   38:07  would be more akin to that than it would be just sort of a nonprofit coming in and saying can we get some money but that uses my concern so that's why open
   38:15  that door we have to start defending that again you know no I understand and then I guess one question on that too is it on a case-byase basis they're paid by you
   38:24  know performing those services or are they just earning a check each year for that amount of money? Yeah, I mean we would have an um an an understanding
   38:33  with them in terms of and probably would do a memorandum of understanding is how we typically do that and then you know we we'd set a time for them to be paid
   38:42  through that time and then you know we would expect them to do like I said they're already are providing some services they're getting some funding
   38:50  from the state and so um you know it's uh to try and break that out for a certain case or something like that
   38:57  would be I think too too much. Yeah. So more burdensome.
   39:01  Yeah. It's more of a as long as they continue to do good work, we would fund it. And if there would be a time, I'm not saying there would be, but but they
   39:08  wouldn't be meeting expectations. So thank you.
   39:20  And then that would be that would end up in a new program services, which is I see is a kind of a pink column there. Um
   39:28  so all right uh the chair would entertain a
   39:35  motion then regarding supplies category 2 other services and charges category 3
   39:43  and capital outlays category 4 as presented Mr. Brale thank you Mr. Scott Mr.
   39:56  Thankful for the motion. Mr. Scott for the second.
   40:02  Any other questions or comments, Judge Spitzer?
   40:08  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed, saying sign. Motion carries. Thank you so much. Let's take care. Appreciate it.
   40:22  to we have a break but prosecutors here it's up to you
   40:30  gentlemen whether or not you want to take a break or anybody else yeah
   40:37  for on do that then if you are ready Mr. I'm ready.
   40:44  All right. Any trials this week? Pardon? Any trials for you this week? Not this week. All right. Very good. Thank goodness.
   40:52  Yes. We have several state trials coming up. Not this week. Actually have two murder trials scheduled for next month.
   41:02  So we be a busy office.
   41:05  Um but sh I know your time is valuable. I appreciate your the opportunity to come to present budget.
   41:12  Uh just with respect to I I guess um the prosecutor's general fund uh supplies other services and charges and capital
   41:20  outlays. Uh very little change. Um I would note that um I am asking to cut
   41:27  the budget by $200 for printing and supplies. Uh we simply don't need as much there as we are moving more
   41:34  paperless. Uh so yeah, we are less paper. I don't want to say paperless but less paper. So, we don't need all 945.
   41:43  Uh, also cutting 300 from the gasoline and auto fund. Uh, we haven't used the 4961
   41:51  in years. Um, actually, that's a it's $270 less. In fact, I wonder if it was a transposition air instead. Which one?
   41:58  The gasoline and auto.
   42:02  Um, but nonetheless, I I do think it was a transposition error.
   42:07  That's what it looked like. But um so you want to be $46.91. Yeah, that's fine. So $270 less. Yeah, $270 almost.
   42:14  Okay. Um and I am asking for an increase um with respect to our not public fee.
   42:23  Uh we had budgeted 200 last year. Uh we, as you note, we are over budget this year. That's because there are some additional costs associated with uh
   42:32  notaries now. So, I did ask for an increase of $200 there, but otherwise everything else will stay the same.
   42:40  Um, do you want to deal with the 40 or salaries next?
   42:47  Uh, you can talk about salaries. Sure.
   42:50  Um, does it look like you have some changes in there? I think that uh as you recall um last year uh I think I
   42:58  was one of the few departments that did not even request a salary increase for my staff uh in the position that the
   43:05  county was in. Um this year I am asking for raises but um I would note that as you look at that sheet the overall
   43:13  amount that we are asking um for this year is $996,829 whereas last year we were budgeted for 1,3245.
   43:24  So uh I could do the politician thing and say I'm cutting the budget uh but which I am but I am asking for a raise
   43:32  uh for my staff. Uh generally it's in approximately a3 to5,000 range. So about three a little over 3% uh for my staff.
   43:43  Uh that does um part of that I I would say would be coming because we are asking to cut a position a part-time
   43:52  position that uh had been in place and had been budgeted for uh for last year.
   43:58  So, in in one respect, I'm I'm not asking for an increase overall. Um, but I am
   44:05  asking for raises for my my staff and my attorneys better. In fact, as I added all the funds you had involved, it
   44:12  looked like the total salary was 28,668 less in 27 than it was in 26. Yes, that
   44:22  sounds No, hold on because I'm going to ask for more of that money back in the couple openings, too.
   44:32  Yeah, I do have Well, I have I have openings with respect. One still uh JP Morris position is going to be open.
   44:39  It's not open now. Uh then I have two office positions that I hope to be filled. that the total I gave you that
   44:46  was a little general fund the the victim's advocate spotlight prosecute 4D deferral and pre-trial all this together
   44:53  yeah was a negative 28 so I am trying to to be fiscally responsible while still advocating for my staff
   45:01  is that so that's a drop position you talk about yes it is a drop position so you just don't need that um no we don't we are able to function
   45:10  without it and so rather than have just for the sake of having a position and having another employee I
   45:19  would just ask to strike that and kind of disperse that money and that is the juvenile yeah juvenile parttime juvenile case
   45:25  processor position last held I believe she was 27
   45:42  um with respect to salaries one thing I We want to point out um is we have introduced a design item um from the
   45:51  pre-trial diversion um position uh or fund gener
   46:01  have any line items on. We've had to move money from there to the um deferral the deferred prosecution fund.
   46:12  So, we've had line items from the prosecution fund, but not from the pre-trial diversion. And generally, every year about November, I have to
   46:20  come and ask for a transfer. Um, this year, I've cut uh 42,500 from my my
   46:27  budget request is cut 42,500 from that deferral salary uh compensation.
   46:34  Um, the reason for that is we have a a third party vendor who has taken over some of that. there is a fee associated
   46:41  with that. Uh but the costs are clearly outweighed by the benefits
   46:48  there. Um however, we do have an increase or a new line item from the pre-trial version um for the victim's
   46:56  advocate. The the reason for that is we have lost funding in our broker grant um
   47:02  to trial uh $7,500 a year. Uh so I'm making that up through this fund rather
   47:10  than asking um asking come from the budget the general fund.
   47:18  So I am shifting some money around there.
   47:34  we get to that. Sure. That's fine. I got All right. That's later. Thanks.
   47:40  Uh so I guess the chair would entertain a motion regarding the general fund prosecutor uh supplies category 2, other services
   47:50  and charges category 3 and capital outlays category 4 as presented.
   47:56  I'll move for approval for those categories as present. Thank you, Mr. McCord.
   48:01  Do we have a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Scott.
   48:07  Any questions or comments regarding those categories?
   48:12  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. Uh those same sign. Motion carries.
   48:20  Uh next we have the general fund victims.
   48:25  Yes. So this is the fund that was actually cut uh with respect to uh the the VOCA grant as
   48:34  you may recall VOCA reimbures rather than um funds at the beginning uh
   48:42  our budgeted amount was cut by I I want to say close to seven I I might have misspoken it. It's close to $17,000 over
   48:51  the next two years. So that's reflected um in the salary portion. Um whereas
   48:58  last year we had adopted a budget of 63,885.
   49:03  Uh next year it's $50,000 and that reflects the amount that we are going to get from VOCA. Um that's version that's can see that now. Okay.
   49:15  Um otherwise everything else is staying the same in these categories.
   49:26  Uh the chair would entertain a motion uh for this uh regarding uh category 2 for
   49:33  supplies and other services and charges category 3 as presented.
   49:39  Thank you Mr. Cado. Second. Thank you Mr. Lming.
   49:46  Any questions or comments regarding this fund? for victims hearing. None. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I.
   49:55  And those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Next, we're on the spotlight
   50:02  is also a grant. Uh yes, this is a grant position. Um so, well, it's grant
   50:09  reimbursement. Um numbers are are pretty much stay the same. There's a little bit of a decrease uh with respect to the
   50:17  salaries. Again, that's made up in uh the other the new line item on the pre-trial version.
   50:28  All right. Uh chair entertain a motion regarding spotlight and category three other services and charges as presented.
   50:39  Thank you, Mr. Scott. Second. Thank you, Mr. cut out. Questions or comments regarding that?
   50:47  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I.
   50:50  Those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Uh, next we have prosecutor 4 D fund.
   50:58  Uh, prosecutor 4 as you'll note with the exception of salaries. Um
   51:05  we are keeping everything the same with respect to expenses. Uh there is an increase in the salary
   51:14  I believe if you note the increase there is approximately $7,000 which would
   51:21  reflect a remaining balance of actually it's 18,000 18,000 18,000 total increase. So
   51:30  the the thing that we have to remember about that is it's actually only it's 33% of that which would be the increase because we do get reimbured for 66% uh of those expenditures.
   51:42  And I I want to say um just for for the benefit of you that our 4D uh
   51:50  department, you know, that's responsible for collecting child support uh enforcing child support orders has
   51:58  consistently been graded exceptional in all areas. Um it which reflects our work
   52:05  uh of I call them my 4D gals. Uh they're five gals up there. Um and and that's why I'm asking for um their pay increase
   52:14  as such because I believe that their work is showing that uh that they are uh worth
   52:23  that raise. And so I I just wanted to to point that out.
   52:38  Chair would entertain a motion regarding uh supplies category 2 uh other services and charges category 3 and capital
   52:45  outlays category 4 as presented. So move. Thank you Mr. Cado. We have a second.
   52:52  Thank you Mr. Any questions or comments from Mr. Hunt?
   52:59  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. Those votes. Motion carries.
   53:06  Next, we have uh the defer prosecution fund which is uh salaries and it looks like this fund balance.
   53:14  I will be here in a couple you know probably the next month or so asking for transfer of funds from the other fund.
   53:23  But I would just point out that um the salary has substantially decreased uh this year because of the position that I have cut because of the party outsource.
   53:36  Okay. Outsourcing of of that work. How much is the contractual services?
   53:46  $4,000 a year. Okay. So you're cutting the $40,000 position.
   53:50  Yeah. Yeah, the difference in the salary for the two years 26 27 in this budget is 38671.
   53:57  Yeah, that's the reduction in salary shown in that fund significant.
   54:09  So, is this AI taking over?
   54:11  No, it's not AI. It's a it's a company who does this for numerous counties around the state. uh
   54:18  they've streamlined the process and so it's a benefit for us.
   54:22  All right. And that's all personal services. So we can move on to that. And now we're at the uh free trial diversion fund.
   54:32  Yes. This is uh this is the fund where we will be taking money from within a couple months and moving it. Um what I would notice what I just want to draw
   54:40  your attention to is the contractual services here. That $4,000 is the amount for the service you're paying. Uh you'll
   54:47  also notice this is the first year uh where we are adding a salary uh to this fund and that is to cover the cuts and
   54:56  the grants rather than ask the general fund to cut to cover that.
   55:01  Yeah, that's the victim that coordinator. Yes. Yes.
   55:10  Everything comes full circle. Yes. Yes.
   55:26  I move for approval of category 3 as present. Second.
   55:30  All right. Thank you, Mr. McCord, for the motion. Thank you, Mr. Lming, for the second. Any questions or comments for Mr. Hunt?
   55:41  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. All right. Same sign. Motion carries. Thank you, Mr.
   55:49  Appreciate. All right.
   55:55  On our agenda is uh public defender.
   56:02  Oh, there he is. Mr. Drew hiding back there.
   56:10  Yeah. I do whatever she says.
   56:13  She was home. We move on quickly. I'm trying. I'm trying. We're 15 17 minutes ahead of schedule.
   56:19  Yes. Here we are. I'll slow it down for you. Cost you.
   56:30  Um, I wanted to uh I believe I think it was Judge Meeks
   56:38  talked about Did you get Did I get I did not. Okay.
   56:43  So the public defender that would be involved with his F FRC court that was in his budget and I think the discussion
   56:50  of that particular it was probably should be in my budget because it can get reimbursed.
   56:55  That's the 475 I think. So you put together a new sheet for me. I think that's the Yes, that's the difference between the
   57:04  first one and the second one that submitted. So I don't really have a dog in that fight. That's uh when Judge Meeks uh when my office decided when I
   57:14  took over for Mr. Elliot, we weren't going to go to the F FRC stuff uh as part of a regular that's not part of a regular contract and we're busy enough.
   57:24  So when we stopped doing that, he went to their state commission and they said, "Well, you do need a lawyer for that if you're going to have that kind of a
   57:32  court." And so that's where he came with that money. So that's why that's in there, that 2075. Um
   57:40  I believe it's uh something that he has to have in that system to have that problem solving court that recovery court. That's why
   57:48  that's in my budget now so it can be agree with you. Bruce Elliott often times was the lawyer for
   57:57  well cases. this was uh would go well when judge Ken Williams was here and that's when that started and uh I don't
   58:05  ever tried to argue with Judge Ky she said we need somebody and so send somebody so we started doing that business of our hearts but they got they
   58:13  got a lot more involved and it's it's it's a lot of extra time and really those aren't anybody's clients once they're in FRC they're sort of
   58:21  they're not a lawyer's client they're just in that program so anything we were doing with any of those people in that program. They weren't really our clients. They were somebody else's
   58:29  client that has gotten off the case. So, I decided that we just didn't have enough resources to
   58:37  do that. So, I believe they're going to Judge Meeks has talked to another lawyer about doing that, but they they would need to be paid and that's what that
   58:44  money is for. So, I I agree that uh they should be paying somebody to do it, but it's not something that I was doing.
   58:53  Was that again, Mr. Mr. Clifffield again? Yes, that's who he There's like five
   59:00  David and it's David.
   59:04  And again, he's not involved in chin court or DCS court. Uh so that I thought that was a good choice because it's somebody that's not involved with those clients on the reg.
   59:14  But are you still able to do all the other duties that are required? He says he is.
   59:18  Do you as the manager of that department say that he is?
   59:20  I agree. Yeah, he's he's uh you know him and Bruce are Bruce are trying to wind down their practices and
   59:28  he's he's willing to he does really good job on the other problem solving in the other person I would have considered for that is Sasha but uh as you know she
   59:38  just got married and she's she doesn't need the extra work right now mainly so she's still trying to do a lot of private practice so somebody named Luc
   59:47  I think that's again I do this great have some concern about how can we stretch the guy how many heavy dollars we pay for that time.
   59:57  Well, it doesn't have to. I mean, I'm not saying what I'm saying in this particular context cuz Judge Meek's going to decide who does it.
 1:00:05  So, it's but it's in my as long as the person that's working in your department still get his case is done. That's okay.
 1:00:12  uh and and uh I don't know how I really don't know how problem solving court PD is allocated as far as a case basis and
 1:00:20  what that number is not like a jury trial or it won't interfere with what he does in your department. You're saying no it will not
 1:00:29  if it does then we have to put somebody else but he'll complain about it. You ever heard David complain?
 1:00:37  Never.
 1:00:39  Um, the only other thing now, I don't know if you guys remember, but recently you approved
 1:00:47  a an hourly budget of $40,000 that M.
 1:00:54  Jarvis told us we needed to do because the we were paying supplemental funds to hourly people on regular basis, people
 1:01:01  that aren't necessarily regular public defenders, but unfortunately, they're sending us hourly bills. and we were taking the balance of supple fund and
 1:01:10  the commission says we can't do it that way. We had to allocate specific money for that.
 1:01:15  So that's also part of this budget, but you've already approved that previously. Am I right about that?
 1:01:23  Are you talking about the supplemental public fund? Okay. Yeah.
 1:01:28  Services going from 46 to 89. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah.
 1:01:31  No, that's what I'm saying is you already approved a an allocation of $40,000 for hourly public defenders.
 1:01:39  These are guys that aren't under any kind of a contract. Like we have Jesse Blandon from Muny that comes and does cases for us. Uh Jordan Candy from Wash.
 1:01:48  Uh there's a Savannah Arasio who is under contract, but she also does some hourly for us. So we were they would submit a
 1:01:56  claim and we would pay it out of our budget out of our supplemental budget.
 1:02:01  We were told that we can't do it that way. And that's true. Legally, that's not the correct way to do it. You have to if you're doing that out of the supplemental fund on a regular basis, that's violating their rules.
 1:02:13  I'm I'm a little lost right now. Okay.
 1:02:17  We do have We haven't gotten to the supplemental fund yet. We have a supplemental fund budget that we have a request for $40,000 in. Is that what
 1:02:24  you're talking about? That is we've already we established an um appropriation for 26
 1:02:33  in what fund in the supplemental public defender fund. We did that last month.
 1:02:39  Okay. That's legal services line item though. Yeah, that's the legal services.
 1:02:43  Okay. So that was because we already paid half of 26 of the item went wrong.
 1:02:48  So we had to go back to So that we're just saying that's in the budget again for next year because we have to have that. just jumping to the next fund. Okay. So, but you start calling it out.
 1:02:58  It's actually a contractual arrangement with those people that we're paying out of the supplemental public defenders fund, right? Out of the legal services.
 1:03:04  Okay. But it's not a set amount. It's it's a set amount of your budgeting.
 1:03:10  The reason I brought that up is because we are like Kate Dyson. I don't know if you guys know who that is, but she's from Wash, very excellent lawyer. uh
 1:03:17  just had another set of twins and quit coming up here on her on her if you look at the bottom of that green sheet, she's listed as a super PG.
 1:03:29  It says Kate Dyson or somebody else.
 1:03:33  Kaitlyn, her her husband's name is Dyson, but her lawyer name is Lyn. Yes.
 1:03:36  So yeah, Caitlyn, who I would love to have still working here, uh she was only doing murders and appeals for us. And
 1:03:45  that's the uh and that was being paid from contractual services in our public defender budget, the general fire.
 1:03:52  Yeah. That's so that's not a that's a 20 if you look there, that's a 23,25.
 1:03:58  And what that is is when we first started that back in the day, we used to pay, well, you used to pay people hourly
 1:04:05  to do murders and appeals. And so when we started the public defender uh board
 1:04:12  here, they decided we they would like to have a set number. We like to budget what that's going to be. No matter how many, can we get nine murders or we get
 1:04:21  one murder? If you get 12 appeals or two appeals, we don't we want to know what that number is. Cuz if you're paying two lawyers to do a murder case by the hour,
 1:04:29  it can get pretty out of hand pretty quick. So that's where when Judge Thompson was running this, he he uh we came up with $90,000 divided by four guys. And those were called super PD.
 1:04:41  This is 15 17 years ago. So that $90,000 has never changed. You had four guys doing all the murders and all the
 1:04:50  appeals and Kate was one of those. She quit um 6 weeks ago, two months ago basically because it wasn't worth her
 1:04:58  time to drive up here for $23,000. She did three murder cases and four appeals in that 18 months. And she just said
 1:05:06  that's not worth it cuz she's got a lot of practice. She does a lot of stuff in Huntington and all that. Anyway, I've added into the budget an increase in
 1:05:14  that super PD fund now. And that's why because if we don't do that, we're going to have to pay
 1:05:22  lawyers that are willing to do murders and appeals for that money. You have to pay if a guy wants an appeal on a criminal
 1:05:31  conviction, he has to you have to have a lawyer.
 1:05:33  Yeah. Well, it looks like our budget in 26 was two of those positions instead of three.
 1:05:38  Well, and here's why. because when when you made a you made Bruce a chief public defender and you made me a chief deputy
 1:05:46  public defender, the um that money, those two of those spots went into that salary.
 1:05:52  So you've got a chief public defender and a chief deputy that are also doing murders and appeals, but you're not paying them separately. That's just part of that job. So So we had Kate and Jared doing it, and now we're down to Jared.
 1:06:05  Uh, and I and Dave Payne are also doing that.
 1:06:12  So, but we're not being paid as super easy. We we're just That's how your salary is.
 1:06:16  Yeah. And that's why that that number is where it is. So, what I'm saying is if I'm going to if I want to fill here's the other thing that's going to happen.
 1:06:24  When Bruce retires in January or December, Jared's going to take that spot. That's the other full-time spot.
 1:06:30  Okay. So, um, that's the 105 105 550.
 1:06:40  Yeah. And so, um, that doesn't meaning he's still doing what he's doing, but he's not taking a super PD check
 1:06:48  anymore. He's getting it as part of the fulltime thing. So, do I want do I just want one super PD person still left?
 1:06:55  I've got I'm supposed to have four because really we have to have two on every murder. You understand what I'm saying about that? two lawyers on every murder case. That's a that's a standard.
 1:07:05  I wouldn't have known that was a standard group of and I'm not So, right now uh I'm doing I've got a murder case on September 18th
 1:07:13  and a se a murder case on September 28th, but I'm doing just me because they're fairly simple if you can imagine. But, uh but we're we're just
 1:07:22  and and Jared's doing a codefendant of one of my murder cases. He's doing that by himself cuz we don't have enough lawyers for everybody to have two lawyers. We're supposed to do it that
 1:07:30  way. That's the That's the I I won't call the state standard to do that.
 1:07:35  We've always done it that way here. But I'm not saying we have to keep doing that. But if we don't pay a little bit more for that, um
 1:07:44  we're going to do more orders and appeals, we're going to have to pay it hourly. And so I, you know, I don't I don't necessarily
 1:07:52  know how you feel about that because you can't control the hourly. Like I just read up the hourly rate for public defenders non- capital cases is $120 next year. It's $110 right now.
 1:08:04  Well, let me ask you this. How many 89 214 you're requesting in contractual services? 89214. How many positions are you expecting?
 1:08:12  That would been two. That would just been two.
 1:08:15  Yeah. because I I believe uh what I what I wanted to ask him was if we're doing super PDS instead of paying them 232 I
 1:08:24  want to pay him 446 and I I talked about that because that was before KJ decided to quit. So So you're asking double really there.
 1:08:34  Well, and I that number is is something that is not set in any I don't have any
 1:08:42  reference for that other than I'm trying to make it something where somebody would want to do that. The other problem we've got right now is there's not a lot of new lawyers that want to do appeals.
 1:08:53  They don't like to do them. And so I'm doing a lot of the appeals, but I'm not going to be here forever. So if you don't, what I'm saying is if you don't
 1:09:01  want to have, you don't even have to have superbs anymore. That's something that we started to establish a budget
 1:09:07  for those kind of cases. Um, but what what happens is you then pay those hourly as they come. And so if you only have two murder cases in a year, you're money ahead.
 1:09:16  Yeah. But nobody really can predict that.
 1:09:21  So if you go like 95, you had 96,800 was your adopted budget. Then in 2026, we made the full-time people. we took some
 1:09:29  of that budget away to then um make the salary set and that's the reason these numbers right now look really inflated
 1:09:35  to $40,000 to your point. But in 25 we didn't have full-time people. In 26 we
 1:09:42  have full-time people. So you're you're trying to Yeah, they're doing that.
 1:09:46  You're trying to go backwards and piece this together to say here's what we're missing as to his point and I know Mr. We're
 1:09:53  starting to lose our scenario saying why did we do this when 26 we manage people full time we end up with a basically
 1:10:00  three time full-time people we never had that before in our lives and so now everything looks jumbled up and a little confusing
 1:10:08  they need to take time away from yes and that's what he's saying now he's
 1:10:14  lost a person and and so we we've got somehow make it right when you say lost person Yes, and that,
 1:10:23  you know, to me and I mean, big fan of Kate, but that was basically the money situation. She's got five kids as well.
 1:10:30  She just had another set of twins, but she's and she really works hard on those cases. An appeal case, she doesn't have to drive up here, but on those murder
 1:10:39  cases, there's pre-trials and she's driving up here. She lives in Rowan. Uh, and Jesse Blandon's another guy that does a lot of uh hourly stuff for us out
 1:10:47  of Muny, but he's got a full-time job of a public defender job in Muny. Craig Berser is local, but he took a public defender job in Muny cuz they paid a
 1:10:56  little bit more than we do. So, what do they pay in Muny for a public defender?
 1:11:03  It was uh well at that time um I think it was heard $5,000 difference.
 1:11:13  That's what I'd heard it was about 60 or something, right?
 1:11:16  And so uh and the other the other that was I came and asked you guys right before he took that job to approve me
 1:11:24  hiring somebody to fill that job here and he took the job mostly the day before and I was afraid he wasn't going to get it. And that's no slight on him.
 1:11:31  in my understanding.
 1:11:33  So, um I I you know that I think our public defender salaries are pretty
 1:11:41  competitive. Uh and some of those guys are like like for instance if you were 55 or at the request.
 1:11:53  Yeah. 36,000 36,528 is the request higher on the 915.
 1:12:02  Yeah.
 1:12:06  For 26 compared to 27 6.4% increase.
 1:12:16  Yeah.
 1:12:19  Is that right? Or was that not supposed to be?
 1:12:24  Well, let me put it this way. I I wasn't prepared to ask you to pay our regular public vendors that are making 55 more.
 1:12:33  Okay.
 1:12:34  I'm not sure where those numbers you look at 915. That's that's better than the Los Angeles are paying.
 1:12:42  Yeah.
 1:12:43  So, I apologize for that, but I don't Okay.
 1:12:45  I don't know. Now, so the if you go up to the top of that where you've got me and Dave and Bruce right now, those
 1:12:53  numbers are bigger, but I think those are those are pegged to the state what they pay the prosecutor's office. Okay. You understand what I'm saying?
 1:13:01  Yes. Cuz I thought you had said before they had to be equivalent. Those are 5% higher than what we are currently. Okay.
 1:13:08  This top two are the third one is 21 12% higher than where we are right now. Yeah, I hear what Bruce's 27 request versus 26.
 1:13:18  It's a 21 and a half% increase.
 1:13:20  And all I know is uh and I wasn't here to hear what Scott's numbers were for for his, but I think I don't know that he even controls that. That's the way
 1:13:27  the commission talks about that is the state decides the Supreme Court decides what they're paying prosecutors and judges and we're supposed to track that
 1:13:36  is why those numbers are there. So, right. I don't know if we've seen that schedule for the coming year. I I don't recall.
 1:13:42  I haven't seen anything. So, I don't know that that would even be in his budget request because you don't you don't pay him. Right. Right. Right.
 1:13:49  So, that's what's a little unusual about us is our numbers. We're basically asking you to say whatever you're paying him, you're supposed to pay me.
 1:13:57  Right. And whatever you're paying Evan, you're supposed to pay D. You do have that in your budget book.
 1:14:01  Isn't there should be up in the front up underneath one maybe.
 1:14:06  I guess I missed it. Yeah. Well, I tried to look on my way into uh to see whether the state had announced what prosecution
 1:14:15  made next year, but I could only find 2026 and the state didn't give the uh the probation alternate race,
 1:14:24  right? There's no increase there. I notice 8 25 to 26. There's no change.
 1:14:30  Well, I guess if the public defenders are currently making 55, you didn't request this other than I guess I'll go
 1:14:36  up to the um next line for public defender. It says trial/ps.
 1:14:44  Are you requesting 20 21 there or no?
 1:14:52  like a increase from 825 to 105 cuz we had that as well.
 1:15:04  I guess it's actually 20. Yeah. 225.
 1:15:07  Yeah. In the letter of the injury refer to back dated June 23rd it does talk later says having reviewed the relevant data
 1:15:15  provided by the state personal department I've determined the average salary increases for executive branch state employees in the same or similar salary as judges and justices the 0%.
 1:15:26  So I'm think they must be a zero again for the upcoming year. Is that does that sound like that's what that means for judges? Does it say prosecutors though?
 1:15:35  Well, would they be in the same? That's the same number be the same.
 1:15:38  Okay. Well, then yeah. So then I guess these shouldn't have a 5% increase then.
 1:15:43  I would take note. Well, so I mean I'm I'm acknowledging and I'm more than
 1:15:51  happy to accept the fact that whatever the state is paying those three type of like like um Mr. Elliot's the third
 1:16:00  full-time job is I think Scott has two guys making that 10550.
 1:16:06  Okay, which would be Mr. Winslow and maybe Happy. So that's where that number comes from. Those top three numbers are I'm
 1:16:14  saying whatever the states are in those positions.
 1:16:17  Okay. And I think Scott decides I don't think the third full-time one is is that's not it's chief PD I'm sorry chief
 1:16:27  prosecutor and the chief deputy prosecutor are paid by the state and that number should track with me and my
 1:16:33  chief David the third full-time guy is supposed to be equivalent to the next highest full-time guy in the
 1:16:41  prosecutor's office which is where that 105 comes from.
 1:16:44  Yeah, I see that. So, what I'm telling you right now is the the numbers for David and Sasha and the numbers for
 1:16:50  those $55,000. I'm not prepared to ask you to raise those.
 1:16:54  Okay. Thank you. U and I apologize. I don't know exactly. I'll have to track that down. But uh I was prepared to ask
 1:17:02  you u are and and and if you go down to where our secretarial stuff is, there's a
 1:17:10  um those are numbers that Lisa Morris is our only secretary and
 1:17:18  she's dealing with three full-time guys now. She's she's been okay when I took over cuz I knew almost everything of my own work. She was doing a lot more for Bruce, but she'll do a lot more for Mr.
 1:17:29  Payne. And I don't know about Jared.
 1:17:32  Jared Payne's his uh secretary. So when he goes full-time, if he does in January, then that's why there's a
 1:17:39  $40,500 request. It says new 2026 secretary. We don't have that position, but we'd like to. And that is that is
 1:17:47  simply saying again support personnel and the prosecutor's office. How many secretaries do they have? That's why we have an investigator that's making Mr.
 1:17:56  Wson down at the bottom. That number is supposed to be close to what their investigator is making. So, um, that's why
 1:18:05  and and I understand when we say, "Okay, we gave you three full-time positions for fun." And now you're back saying, "Well, because we have three, we need
 1:18:13  another secretary and that's more money." So, I understand that, but that's why we're asking for because that's part of that whole plan is if you're going to be in compliance with
 1:18:21  the rules and they do ask us if we've got three full times and you need at least a time and a half secretary,
 1:18:28  what they will do about that. It's the same old argument you guys have heard before. You know, if we don't do this, are we not going to get a reimbursement?
 1:18:34  And I don't know, but I do know, I mean, Lisa Morris will probably be here another four or five years.
 1:18:42  And so, uh, I guess you guys at some point have to get used to the fact that we're going to have to professionalize
 1:18:49  that office. And I maybe, I mean, we've heard talk about, you know, do we want to have a more full-time public defenders and where are they going to be? And, you
 1:18:58  know, we're running out of room over there. So, it's just a budget that kind of supposed to track the prosecutor. And the idea is make it a fair fight. So,
 1:19:07  I'm just trying to say we'd like another budget for the secretary. I'm not I'm not asking for more on uh anything other
 1:19:14  than to that you would line up the full-time guys with the process.
 1:19:21  So the secretary though you're saying that it could be a part-time position and not necessarily a full That's why it says 40,500 u leases uh
 1:19:30  making 45 and we've asked to increase that a little bit and that's legitimate I think. And that's just simply her uh saying here's what they make downstairs.
 1:19:40  So um so where it says new 2026 for secretary really it's new 2027 if we have something there. Is that we have
 1:19:49  sorry we have one secretary we'd like to have one and a half. I don't think we're going to get a full-time gal for 40 but who knows? I don't know what those hours
 1:19:57  will be. That's not even a position I have. You know I don't have a a job description for that and what she would be doing. Okay. Uh the only problem
 1:20:04  would be we don't have any place to put her right now unless we move John our investigator out of our office which
 1:20:11  could happen. So now also I wanted to point out Savannah Alcasio is listed here as a
 1:20:20  a uh public defender down at the bottom of that underneath Justin McKenzie. You see that under says Yeah, I see her right there.
 1:20:29  So, u great gal, Blackford County, Montyard gal does a great job and uh she's going to be the new chief deputy prosecutor of Bford County.
 1:20:40  She she'll be leaving.
 1:20:41  Yes, she can do both. So, I'm uh losing another uh uh a good female attorney
 1:20:48  that is is very useful. Uh so, what I'm saying is I'm going to have to hire some people. Uh it would be nice to if like
 1:20:56  if I got a decent number on my super PD to one job that I still have, you know, then if I'm asking you give me one more
 1:21:03  super PD. We used to have four. Now we have three in full-time.
 1:21:09  So if I could get an increase on that, it might help me hire somebody to do both of those jobs. I could give the 55 and whatever you're paying for
 1:21:17  murders and appeals. So that's why I asked for a raise there.
 1:21:22  That number of 89 is with two people. So what I'm saying is a super PD should make somewhere between 40 and 45,000 in
 1:21:30  my vote and only because we've been paying that 23 for I'm going to say almost 20 years
 1:21:39  never raised it and that's if you bounce back to the secretary. I I think part-time versus full-time is a
 1:21:48  significant difference in my mind because one pays health insurance and one doesn't.
 1:21:53  But again, I don't I don't have the position to even say like we're not replacing, you know, I
 1:22:01  don't have that distance. So I I just want to So that 40 you're saying that 45,500
 1:22:09  will also if it's full, you got to add that insurance money in, right?
 1:22:14  uh I'm just saying that it's got to be somewhere. I'm just if it's a part-time position and it could be a a true number
 1:22:23  of, you know, 25 30,000 or something like that. It depends, I guess, what the hourly wages, then if they're working
 1:22:30  less than 30 hours. I think if they're working more than 30 hours, then they're they are a full-time employee. Well, and I I guess it would depend on
 1:22:40  what we tell her when we iron or him when we iron, right? Um I think there's there's more people available to do something like that part time.
 1:22:50  Uh keep in mind parttime a lot of times we're talking like halfime. Right now $40,00 compared to let's say let's even 50.
 1:22:59  That's like an 80% employee, not a halftime employee. So we have to decide how many dollars we're going to put toward that. Then you get how many hours you can get out of that kind of thing, right?
 1:23:08  It would be nice to get something in that budget. That's whatever that number is. Even if it's
 1:23:16  part time, if it's not part time, it's halftime. Yeah.
 1:23:20  Good for part time. Are you talking three time? Well, so then you know we get that we get somebody in that position at the first of the year and
 1:23:29  maybe that's what that's all we need and we can tell the commission we've got you know they want they said at least one and a half or at least a halftime that's
 1:23:37  why I said at halftime comparison prosecutor office for 2026 paid 1,30,245
 1:23:47  public defender salary 2026 is1,30,862 too. So PD's actually made a few hundred more than the prosecutor's office did.
 1:23:58  And we may we may I don't know what that is. That may not be including the state's portion. I don't
 1:24:05  you mean like what I know their general fund our general fund total for the procure staff was a million3 right?
 1:24:12  So it's 3,000 right at the same but doesn't include what you're paying evidence is what you're saying.
 1:24:21  That's correct. Correct. Right. Does not which is what your band members.
 1:24:25  Right. Right. So that would indicate that theirs is more than yours.
 1:24:30  People like So my goal is to try to stay out of hot
 1:24:39  water with the commission which you guys have done a nice job. That's why I'm asking for the secretary.
 1:24:48  And the other thing is when I start talking about doing murders and appeals, uh, if we don't have enough lawyers to
 1:24:56  do that, you you have to pay somebody to do it. You can't. Those are nightmare cases to try to sponge together, uh,
 1:25:05  with the guys that are already on contract because they a murder case or an appeal case carries more of a case loan weight. So if like if Dave and I
 1:25:14  are doing all of those then we run out of you know like we always do we run out of cases and so at the end of the quarter we can't do anything and then
 1:25:21  you start that's why we have hourly guys to cover those things and you start paying those guys $120 an hour on murder cases and things.
 1:25:30  I think the fact that you've got three full-time jobs has helped that cuz we don't need all those super code defenders. The only problem with that
 1:25:38  would be is if we had a a murder case where there were four codefendants and you need technically you would need eight orders
 1:25:45  for that. How do you figure David's case load? Is it for each so that he's in or is it just case load?
 1:25:55  No, no David. He's he's asking about David.
 1:25:57  Okay. Right. Right. Cuz you were talking earlier I think is top three that Yes. And his case load is is a function of his pay.
 1:26:07  He and I are at the highest number of cases we can take. Um David Lfield is and this is what I was saying earlier
 1:26:14  when you talk about doing a problem solving case like the guy's he's done a plea and he's already in drug court.
 1:26:22  Okay. Um he has nothing to do with that unless the guy gets violated and they're trying to kick him out and then they need a lawyer cuz they're now they're
 1:26:30  going to go to prison. That's part of their agreement. So that would not be that's like a probation violation kind of thing where that's not a that's a very small number on a case load basis.
 1:26:41  So those problems you can get a lot of cases and really there's no there's no chance of a trial. There's no chance of
 1:26:48  a appeal. It's just you're going to like a termination of criminal rights.
 1:26:56  They got a right to have a lawyer cuz they might lose their kids. But that's that's not like doing a criminal case.
 1:27:01  So those numbers and I don't know the answer because he's in and Sasha both are in a couple different places, right? That's why I'm worried they would
 1:27:09  get their case loads sooner if it's not and I don't know how you I don't know how you keep track of of all that. Lisa does.
 1:27:19  Okay. And and I know like she puts out like every court will send her a quarterly report. here's
 1:27:27  the number of cases that we assigned to this guy and this guy and most of our employers are in certain courts. So, we
 1:27:34  keep track of all that. Then we have to submit that to the Department of Def Council and they'll say, "Well, you're in the red or in the green or you know,
 1:27:43  you're over too much or you got to cut that." So, we decided then, you know, you say, "Well, we're not giving cases to those
 1:27:51  four guys for the next 6 weeks." That's all. So, so in this Jim, if if David's F FRC case load numbers are added to what
 1:27:59  his normal PD cases are, he's going to hit his limits sooner, which means that we're going to have to pay more money.
 1:28:10  Yeah.
 1:28:13  Put too thin, I guess, if that's if that happens. That's the case. Wish he was here tonight talking about that a little bit.
 1:28:19  Well, and I don't I don't know where he is. case load wise on a regular basis because I don't hear that he's over his
 1:28:27  limits. He's not doing I mean he does a lot in superior court 34s. It's very but those are smaller level sixes or misdemeanors and so you can do a lot
 1:28:36  more of those and you can't do anything above that.
 1:28:38  Well, I admit I don't understand those too much. I don't haven't dealt with it.
 1:28:41  I I've heard all the talk about how many hours we have all those kind of things.
 1:28:44  I've never lived and I don't know the detail to feel good about one way or the other. I guess I'm going to rely on you guys your expertise there more than mine on this one. Those case standments come
 1:28:53  from the state, right? And how it gets calculated and who has how much. I mean, it beyond the time I'm going to deal with it.
 1:29:00  If you look at the statute that says so what you're supposed to pay my position or if I'm part-time, like some prosecutors are parttime like
 1:29:09  the prosecutor in L County is going to be part-time. He's going to keep his civil practice, which is pretty unusual. Wash does that.
 1:29:17  Hasn't done that for years. They don't do it now. But Mr. Plumber was a prosecutor up there. He had a private practice. He did uh divorce cases in the states and things like that, but he
 1:29:25  prosecuted all and he got he got less money from the state for that and that's called a 66 person 2/3. He got 2/3 of
 1:29:34  the salary. So, um that's where uh those numbers come from. And so depending on what your case load is, that's why we
 1:29:42  when we say make us full-time, we can have more cases. That's true. But they decide what that number is.
 1:29:50  So have we acted on the general fund yet?
 1:29:52  We are we are still in general fund but we're doing stuff.
 1:29:59  Yep. We can we can entertain a motion regarding category 2, category 3 and category 4 as presented.
 1:30:10  Yes. Thank you Mr.
 1:30:12  Second by Mr. Codell. Now do we have any further questions or comments for Mr. D?
 1:30:18  I I have a question about in the uh contractual services line in category 3 going to 89 214. I don't I don't want to
 1:30:25  deprive the department of what it needs to function in the areas that it's asking for here. Right. But from all this conversation, I still know for sure if that's what's needed or not.
 1:30:35  Sound like it could could be reduced.
 1:30:36  You know, if you go to one super PD, you could still you can still pay out up to $45,000 with one super PD. And I think
 1:30:44  three the PD the public office is so different than anything else because you don't have a choice. I mean if you get if someone gets a public defender you got to take a case right now.
 1:30:52  Yes sir.
 1:30:54  And so I think we can debate all day and all night what they need. I have no idea. And see that's why I want to make
 1:31:00  sure before we put 89,000 we have a better feel for is that was what needed or can we just do the 46410
 1:31:07  and move forward. And I think Mr. Dy's comment that we lost one because these rates have been paid for the last how
 1:31:15  many 15 to 20 years. It's amazing to blow it up some. Do we need to have do we need to double it? I guess for those
 1:31:23  two people I only you mentioned 40 45,000. So you like to see it for each?
 1:31:27  Well, I understood it as we would have the ability to hire one super PD at the 40 44,000 as opposed to one only getting 22 three.
 1:31:36  That's right.
 1:31:37  Right. And I and what I'm saying in when it said 89, that's the 446 * 2, right?
 1:31:44  But and my expectation is Jared's going to take that third full-time job and that'll just be included in his responsibilities and we won't have that.
 1:31:54  But so what you're saying then is if we if we get like if I'm gone and Dave Payne's gone and Jared's still here,
 1:32:03  you got to get a chief public defender and a chief deputy public defender who's going to do murders and appeals. And of course they would cuz they're going to take that paycheck.
 1:32:13  So um we've always had four super PADs.
 1:32:18  Uh, but I think now we just need one because we need another lawyer that can if you get codefendants on murder cases,
 1:32:27  you need a couple different lawyers doing that.
 1:32:29  If we just need one, then 45,000 may be enough. That would be great. You think it'd be right? I'd be happy. So, we could reduce that to $45,000.
 1:32:37  Yeah. Right. And so, Right. Well, you know, I think the Super PD contract value for years was $90,000 and but it
 1:32:45  was four people, right? was 96820. 96820.
 1:32:49  So when it says 464 on the on the 26 part, that's because we only were down to two. So now we only need one,
 1:32:57  but we bump it up to make it a higher amount so it's more attractive to have position. That's what we're thinking.
 1:33:02  So where are we at on contractual services?
 1:33:05  So instead of 89214, we could make it 45,000. And so it's 46 now. You just make it 45.
 1:33:14  So I think that makes that account then 129820 instead of 174034
 1:33:23  assuming 1298 draw he wants to Yep. We're going to have Jim confirm
 1:33:31  that amount. If that's the case, that'll cut $44,000 out of that. 4414.
 1:33:43  My calculator didn't work. I did something wrong here. I thought you did all that in your head.
 1:33:53  Yeah, I did not. I'm much younger. Uh I 157,320.
 1:34:00  157. I took the 2011 534 subtracted 89 214 and added 45. I'm on the wrong page.
 1:34:07  That's right.
 1:34:08  That's right. Okay. So, it should be 157 320.
 1:34:18  Wow. So, he rescended his second.
 1:34:24  Yes. amended amount amend yours to yeah your amend your motion to include the 45,000 reducing from 89
 1:34:32  214 to 45,000 okay so that the new so basically if if we're amending it then
 1:34:41  rather than as presented supplies is still as presented for category 2 category 3 um contractual services is
 1:34:48  reduced from 89214 to 45,000 which makes the new total 157320
 1:34:57  and category 4 is still the same at 2500. Correct. So is that your motion then Mr. Brinkle? All right. Thank you, Mr. Frankle.
 1:35:06  Second. All right. Thank you, Mr. Shardell.
 1:35:09  All right. Do we have any other questions or comments for Mr.
 1:35:14  Hearing? None. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I.
 1:35:18  Those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Thank you.
 1:35:25  Yes. Just one more for you. The supplemental public defender fund
 1:35:31  and that one is an increase from adopted budget for 26 was zero, but for 27 it's
 1:35:38  $40. Well, in reality, we went back and added this at 40,000 to the 26 budget a couple weeks ago.
 1:35:48  Okay. Yeah. You you appropriated $40,000 for 26.
 1:35:52  This is a request. That's an additional appropriation, which we had already spent basically half of that, right? The wrong way is why we did it that way.
 1:36:00  So, I didn't ask for any more than that for next year. I just sent the same money and those are hourly bills that we get for guys on conflict
 1:36:09  cases and things. So, the hourly rate is the state.
 1:36:14  But so far, we've been pretty good. the the guys I do have have doing that have been pretty reasonable to me.
 1:36:21  So the chair to entertain a motion regarding other services and charges for account three category 3 for that 40,000 as presented.
 1:36:32  All right. Thank you Mr. Lim. Thank you Mr. Scott.
 1:36:35  Any other questions or comments? Those will be the whole fund here. That's all accounted.
 1:36:39  Yep. That is hearing no other
 1:36:47  questions. All in favor please signify by saying I.
 1:36:50  Those opposed same sign. Motion carries that funds approved. Thank you Mr. D. Yes. We're done.
 1:37:00  All right.
 1:37:02  Next we have directions.
 1:37:09  I know you keep this a real short
 1:37:17  I will do my best simple. So I um I've been doing this so long that uh I started in 1983 and I was sitting here
 1:37:25  looking at members of the council that are here and I've been doing this so long that Mike Scott did his internship for me at the detention center. That's
 1:37:33  how long I've been doing this. So you have the gardener. That's right. Yeah, that's right. A long long time ago, but
 1:37:42  uh um so uh this is probably um the most difficult budget year that
 1:37:51  we've ever had to deal with. Um I'm sure you guys have been dealing with um the consequences of Senate Rule Act One.
 1:37:58  We've been dealing with it with a school corporation for the same thing. uh for some reason um there have been cuts
 1:38:06  galore in grants and we are under the same constraint. So I will do my best to go through this as quickly as possible
 1:38:13  but we will have um an ask at the end of this that I hope you'll be able to support us in. I think maybe Angie has
 1:38:21  briefed you on some of that what we're going to need for um benefit support.
 1:38:26  But um I'll start with whatever sheet you want to start with, Mr. President.
 1:38:31  Uh we're on community corrections fund 9101.
 1:38:35  That's correct. So uh this is uh all um community corrections grant dollars.
 1:38:42  You'll see um salaries and overtime. Uh we will need support in the area of um
 1:38:52  insurance and benefits. I don't know if you want to do that in total or you want to do that separate.
 1:38:59  So we'll have so we have three components that we have uh we have u home detention electronic monitoring and
 1:39:07  day reporting is in that budget and then we have re-entry court um which is separate that we would need financial
 1:39:15  support on um that covers benefits cuz I guess I'm looking at this budget
 1:39:21  and I um I'm not seeing uh those items in there.
 1:39:28  All I see is salaries and now I don't see anything for group
 1:39:35  insurance and 27 it's zero and what I've got requested that the commissioners pick
 1:39:42  that up for next year and it is part of their budget which I've already calculated in okay
 1:39:50  on their budget. So it's part of that personal services section that we haven't acted on. And how much was that request?
 1:39:58  So for everything in total, it's uh 4 35,000. Does that sound right?
 1:40:04  It it was quite substantial. I mean you got your insurance bike up, right?
 1:40:10  You have a breakdown for us as to how much is part or what? I mean, how much is so for I do have that breakdown. Hang
 1:40:18  on. Pull that out. If I go back to 25 and look at what was there,
 1:40:25  I mean, that's what these grants paid for in the past. That's Yes, that's what the grants picked up in the past. We've had a 47% cut in the last two years.
 1:40:35  I can tell you what I remember you talking when you said there was this was coming. There were some things happening as far as Angie. I had 376773
 1:40:44  for the community correction side and for re-entry court 63603.
 1:40:49  Does that sound right? Chris, make sure I'm thinking this has nothing to do with we've already talked about through probation and all that. The general medicine is totally separate from all
 1:40:58  that environment that all Yes, sir. It is. It is. It's totally separate.
 1:41:02  Now, I'm just I'm just going to ask you said you had all you had all those cuts from the state level. Is it federal money coming through the state to us or
 1:41:10  is it just state money? No, it's state money that's allocated specifically in a community corrections allocation and we are we are not the so the cuts are statewide.
 1:41:20  Okay. The throughout the state the counties are getting less money from the state of Indiana to cover these programs.
 1:41:25  Correct. By a substantial amount big dollars. Yes.
 1:41:28  And we don't know how long it's going to be cut. Well, um, we there was a presentation today that was in the interim study in criminal code in there
 1:41:37  talking about this year, but nothing's guaranteed about additional dollars. Um, it won't be a full return of funding, but it could be a partial return.
 1:41:48  Yeah. When we're talking Yeah. Well, I'm talking we're talking to the state legislature, Jim. So, do they ever give you a
 1:41:56  but right now cuz this we're talking this year7 yet this year for 2027.
 1:42:04  They're saying they may reinstate some now for the next calendar.
 1:42:08  So, we're we're already prepping for so we've already got our money for 2026.
 1:42:12  So, they would give us u a new partial award that they would give us at that time. And I talked to Angie. If we were
 1:42:20  to get that, then we would backfill whatever we could of what we got from that money. So in 2028,
 1:42:28  which would be um coming up this budget cycle when the leg state legislature meets um we've had several in uh
 1:42:37  indications that there would be a restoration of the funding that was stripped from before. So they indication we still don't know when and
 1:42:45  how much and no we don't I I you know I I can only give give you you know what they've told
 1:42:53  me that there was a strong possibility at this year for 27 and the uh one the person the individual uh Justice Goff
 1:43:02  who chairs um state Jrat said that he's confident that money for 2028 will be fully restored
 1:43:10  2020 the 27 still kind of in that limbo Yeah, we won't get our funding that we'll know about for 28 because they're
 1:43:18  on a fiscal year. So, we won't know about the funding for 28 until the state legislature closes in April.
 1:43:27  Okay. That's for 28. 27. They've already told you it's cut, but they may reinstate. That's exactly exactly right.
 1:43:34  Yeah. Here's just a I guess a thought or a comment on this. Obviously, it's it's a lot of money for the state to ask counties to pick up that difference in what they've done to us.
 1:43:45  Yeah.
 1:43:45  Is almost unreasonable. How can they expect us to pay another $450,000 out of our budgets that they're taking care of? They're doing the same thing to schools.
 1:43:53  So, well, I know I'm just saying you how can we do that? So, why should we and they're sitting on a $6 billion?
 1:44:00  Yeah. We can get into all that. I guess the bottom line is why should we be trying to if we can make this reason how
 1:44:08  do they expect us to make up that difference in this if we don't do it what happens talk to us about what happens if we
 1:44:14  uh what if if it happens I have uh 59 people that I would I would have I would
 1:44:24  be close to closing I'd have to cut people which means I'd have to transfer people and execute sentences back to the Yeah. Uh I don't want to do that.
 1:44:33  Uh the people you have to know, we we don't see a list of that many people in the paperwork, but we have in our budget stuff. We have just a few positions shown here. So
 1:44:42  he was talking I think he meant 59 people that are on probation.
 1:44:45  Yeah. Okay. I'm talking I'm talking so 59 people are right now hooked up
 1:44:53  electronically. They're in an electronic jail on an executed sentence.
 1:44:58  um those people would if my if I have to cut people if I don't get financial support then I got to cut people which means I have to put people back in jail.
 1:45:09  I don't want to do that because I can't I can't supervise people if I don't have the staff to be able to
 1:45:16  do it. And so that's what I'd be that's what I'd be stuck with. Um I'd have to make some hard decisions. it would be
 1:45:24  the last thing that I would ever like want to do, but I don't really have,
 1:45:30  you know, I don't I'm I don't have any other choices. My hope was to be able to get funding for this year and hopefully
 1:45:39  then be back on track for the following year. Also hoping that we got additional dollars this year so I can maybe cut that number in half about what I would
 1:45:48  need. But I won't know and I don't want the budget established before you know that what I mean you can always reduce the budget.
 1:45:56  I could know I could know by when you have to certify the budget by well we're going to adopt the budget in October. So, I mean, I could know by
 1:46:04  October because if they do that and the state approves it, I have to get a new
 1:46:10  contract back or a new uh budget back that I'll have to get approved by the commissioners and then for the state will then issue a new contract for those dollars.
 1:46:20  So, I would know hopefully I mean the state make a quick turnaround on a contract to come back. Normally, I mean,
 1:46:28  those are already we've already issued those um to the state to be able to be done.
 1:46:34  So, I mean, we could know by October. I What's our third Wednesday? October.
 1:46:40  What's that date? It's that's our adoption date. Yeah. September.
 1:46:49  The first meeting in October is the 7th.
 1:46:52  The That's our special meeting budget. So, yeah. 21st of October is adoption date. Okay.
 1:46:59  So, we would have to, you know, make whatever decision we make. Really October 7th.
 1:47:04  I would prefer that so we can be prepared to adopt on the 21st. So, October 7th is really our kind of a
 1:47:11  and I and again I'm I'm working on they were I don't know where the money's coming from. At the meeting today, um
 1:47:20  Wendy McNamera, representative that chairs that committee, mentioned $12 million.
 1:47:26  Of course, that $12 million has got to be split, but it's going to be divided between No, it's not 92 counties.
 1:47:32  There's only uh there's I think there's 88 that receive community corrections, but they would they divide that up proportionally based upon the need and what they see.
 1:47:41  But there 88 counties, so they're going to get money.
 1:47:43  Correct. Correct. But when I took the allocation that we had at 2026
 1:47:50  with the cuts and put what they allocated for this year, it was almost exactly $12 million.
 1:47:58  So my, you know, my old man brain says, well, hey, there's $12 million there.
 1:48:04  They may restore us to the 2026 levels, in which case we can survive.
 1:48:09  Mhm. Um but if not then that's what we'd be faced with.
 1:48:15  Yeah. Right now you're looks like there of course no raises for the mandated salaries and so forth are included in this.
 1:48:21  Correct. Correct. And then I saw a couple of there's a less amount requested in this fund area than there
 1:48:29  was in the prior year. So I'm not sure how that happened. Well, I've eliminated positions.
 1:48:34  Eliminated the executive director's position. I eliminated a case manager's position. Um but on like on your line for example it shows a less amount
 1:48:41  requested in 27 than what was actually shown in 26. So it's a reduction there or that. Okay.
 1:48:49  So you thinking table all this I can give you the breakdown.
 1:48:54  Well the personal services we're not acting on that.
 1:48:57  Yeah we're not acting on that part. We know what's happen later this first time part. But um it'd be good for us to have somebody you can get us to bring down what's some asking.
 1:49:09  I have $417,245 and right now it's part of the commissioner's budget that we haven't approved yet. It's in that it's in the
 1:49:17  line item. Yes, it's in there. Okay.
 1:49:20  And then I always I mean you can have different things that change you know throughout the years throughout that I mean leading up to that too people leave. Yes.
 1:49:28  Yeah.
 1:49:29  You know, those trans people accomplish what the mission is as far as people you have out of jail.
 1:49:34  Yeah. And I do not want I do not want a matter of fact, we've been working to keep people out of jail, but I don't want to work.
 1:49:41  Yeah. Would you get us to break down all that that $400 some,000 out? It's here right now.
 1:49:46  Well, I mean, just maybe email it to us or get us a sheet neck tomorrow night or something. You can we can actually just look at it.
 1:49:52  I'd like to see it instead of trying to remember the number.
 1:49:55  Let us know where it is in the commissioner's budget, though. It'd be in that personal services and right there all those all those lines the benefits lines.
 1:50:07  You actually have it in your binders now.
 1:50:10  Yeah, we did. Yeah, there is in the committee there just No, I mean it's it's elsewhere in the book, but that's okay.
 1:50:16  Okay. Have we passed through that section already?
 1:50:19  Yeah, I haven't seen it that usually go through each section. So, if I miss them, I'm sure
 1:50:27  Told you got one by me. I'd have to hear that.
 1:50:32  You did say you found that letter earlier. I did. I had seen I had seen that letter. I thought I was thinking there was a schedule that showed my There is there's a a sheet in there that
 1:50:40  shows the per breakdown for the commissioner's budget.
 1:50:44  It shows and it shows the insurance where the the funds that are going to provide insurance and that's his breakdown. His extra need
 1:50:53  is in there. And I haven't looked at that schedule yet.
 1:50:56  The other thing about like categories 2, three, and four, there's going to be something else for us, right? That would be a general fund request that wasn't in
 1:51:04  2026 as as as I'm looking at it. So I actually there there is money that I
 1:51:11  also allocated to in that section. You guys aren't getting it all. I mean, there's there's PI that I allocated for part of that too.
 1:51:22  Did that make sense? Out of fees.
 1:51:29  So again there was what? I thought I allocated money in those also to project income.
 1:51:36  Yeah, project income.
 1:51:38  Which I actually know you're right. It's not
 1:51:46  in there like I was looking at the wrong one. I was looking at 26.
 1:51:51  Why don't we go ahead and go through these? Yes. Funds. So on the nonel items. Yeah.
 1:51:59  So we can do community corrections fund 9101 uh which has supplies category 20 other
 1:52:08  services and charges uh 62428 which is really just drug testing.
 1:52:15  So do we want to approve those categories? If there was zero dollars for some reason, it looks like adopted in 202
 1:52:23  because if you turn the page over in the even years, they have to use a different fund number. So this year it's
 1:52:31  9201. Odd years it goes back to 9101. So you got two funds for the same thing. Okay.
 1:52:38  here. So if you turn it over, you get a moving
 1:52:46  turn over the page over the back. And this is something that the state makes us do every year.
 1:52:57  Yeah. And it has to do with their county procedures, I guess, for the state. I I was wondering where it was. I couldn't find the back side of things. Okay. All
 1:53:06  right. All right. So, we requested a zero.
 1:53:13  Well, for 9101, which is the odd year, which is 20 207 requested budget and actually that's $1,000 last year's request.
 1:53:24  Yes. 61 last year in the back of the page, which I did not see today. Let's go through this.
 1:53:35  I wonder about that in place. All right.
 1:53:40  Makes more sense. I would move for approval of category 2 and three as requested. All right. Thank you, Mr. McCord.
 1:53:49  Do we have a second? Thank you, Mr. Scott.
 1:53:54  We have a motion and a second to approve categories 2 and three as presented on 9101.
 1:54:01  All in favor, please signify by saying I. I no sign motion carries.
 1:54:09  So 9201 with all zeros really we don't need any action because that would be for the even years.
 1:54:17  Your next fund is the exact same way even same thing. All right. And there's nothing except personnel on this right.
 1:54:29  Nothing for contractual services, travel or cell phones. Is that right? It all coming out. It's all coming out of the home detention fund.
 1:54:37  Okay. But for this one, nothing to look up there. No.
 1:54:44  And last year we had a little bit last year, but you said you changed it to other fun. Yes.
 1:54:50  We had in order to maximize the grant dollars that we had, we moved that to the pension fund. And the salaries there are all
 1:54:58  those are all statemandated correct support but I mean on this schedule these are all there's no
 1:55:06  support schedule stuff correct yes those are all right it's all right
 1:55:12  uh detention fund right which is identical
 1:55:22  for 26 right and 27 27.
 1:55:29  We did eliminate part-time out of there for 2027.
 1:55:34  Yeah, I saw that. Good shot. There's just overtime and that again that was another, you know, costsaving measure.
 1:55:47  Any questions?
 1:55:48  This fund is a fee driven fund. That's correct, right? This is fees. That's what that is. That is a fee driven fine print.
 1:55:55  It is our version of probation user fees. Yes.
 1:56:00  I'll move for approval of categories 2, three, and four as Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. BL.
 1:56:09  So, no odd year, even year, 3/4.
 1:56:12  This is the Yeah, this is the one fund they don't make us do that on because it's a user fee fund. All right.
 1:56:19  Any other questions or comments from the council? Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those
 1:56:26  oppos same sign. Motion carries. Thank you. Next, we're on reentry court. Yeah.
 1:56:34  So, uh, this is our re-entry court. Um, if you got any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.
 1:56:43  One thing I had was just, uh, the increases. what was driving those
 1:56:51  uh so um significant I mean this again is a is a fee fund okay um and the um reason for those increases
 1:57:01  is uh cuts in state dollars for training so um our re-entry court grant that we
 1:57:09  get from the state of Indiana from Indiana officer court services normally we get anywhere from 12 to $14,000 we
 1:57:16  got $3,000 this year for 2027.
 1:57:22  We have money from this year, but it'll be the 2027 grant year. And the only money that we received on that was money that we could use for drug screens for
 1:57:30  $3,000. And normally I spend $3,000 in a quarter. So, um
 1:57:38  I had to all do also do the same for training and education. Normally they um provide money for that. They also
 1:57:45  provide money in miscellaneous for incentives.
 1:57:49  Uh so I had to uh pick those up in the fee fund.
 1:57:53  So there you're going to be spending more out of this fund than you have in the past, but you got cash balance to cover that in the past.
 1:58:00  I do I do we do have a uh um this is from specifically from re-entry court fees. So we have a because we've got
 1:58:08  grants before that have been we haven't had to use as much of it but this will be a year that we'll have to the 630 fund balance for that was
 1:58:16  $125,61 $125,000 plus. Okay.
 1:58:20  Now the home detention fund the 630 balance for it was 1.6 million. Correct. Which fund?
 1:58:28  Wow. 1122 home detention. Yeah. Right. It's it's a lot. Okay.
 1:58:35  Well, it's it's a lot, but it's not a lot. You know, when I got to do the grant, they won't give me money unless I can show that there's a balance up.
 1:58:47  All right. What was it again, Angie? How much? 630. And then home detention fund. Home detention is 1,613,595.
 1:58:58  That's not a lot of money. So, I don't know. Nothing goes away, right? What's your wife here?
 1:59:04  That's a lot of money. It seems like a lot, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. Until I got started doing the budget. So, you do
 1:59:12  have an excess though in this one. Do you know roughly how much the fees generate from the registry court? Yeah. And about 260,000 a year.
 1:59:21  Okay.
 1:59:21  So, you're seeing accumulation when Jim says 1.6, you're seeing an accumulation of about 20 years because every year we
 1:59:29  would make a little bit more over the last 10 years.
 1:59:33  Um Melissa pulled this number today when we were looking at different things is that uh we're in the last 10 years we've
 1:59:41  spent 90% toward project income and we've only accumulated 10%. So we're spending it
 1:59:49  like a fire hose and it's coming in like an eyropper. So that's what we're that's what we're up against. So, I would
 1:59:56  generate roughly $50 or $60,000 a year overall total in
 2:00:03  project income, but because of salaries, raises, equipment, everything else cuz we pay everything else out of our budget.
 2:00:12  Yeah.
 2:00:12  Furniture, I mean, anything that we need all comes out of the project. That's not the only detention. That's something. You're correct. Yeah.
 2:00:21  That's a separate fund that we pull from and that's one set up by the uh state for problem solving course.
 2:00:28  Okay. So chair would entertain a motion regarding re-entry court categories three and well actually two three and four. So yeah the entire fund.
 2:00:38  Yeah. So that would be the entire fund. So move. All right. Thank you Mr. Scott. Second.
 2:00:44  Thank you Mr. Lim. Any other questions or comments?
 2:00:49  Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Anybody need
 2:00:57  a comment? Maybe at least you were saying this just because you didn't mean that you were accumulating some money over time. That's a good we have a new fund this year, the pre-trial detention.
 2:01:09  And this is the one fund that is not a grant fund, but one that you allocated for pre-trial. Yes. Um it's part of the general fund.
 2:01:17  Correct. part of the general fund. Um and um it covers a pre-trial probation
 2:01:23  officer and a uh support person um for that. Um
 2:01:31  we have I think we did a uh I think Melissa sent um Mr. President, I think she sent you an email about the progress of pre-trial home detention.
 2:01:42  Um Melissa did I think sent you an email about the number served and where we're at.
 2:01:47  Yes. what's going on with that. So, uh I think we're currently at 19. Um Melissa's here. If you have any other if
 2:01:55  they're really easy questions, I could try and answer them. If they're hard questions, I reserve those for her. Um because she uh it has taken a entire
 2:02:04  court services village to make sure this um has done well. We're at 19 people
 2:02:11  right now. Um, we've saved about 540 bed days that would those will be bad
 2:02:20  days in the jail if these people. So, taking the number of days they've been on the program and counting those up with the 19 people that we have and how
 2:02:28  long we've had them. We've had one complete, two that we've had violate.
 2:02:33  Um, but Melissa has worked very hard on getting everybody on the same page to do
 2:02:40  this. But we have It's not just one person and that staff person, I guess, is what I'm saying. It's a whole village. You said 540 days.
 2:02:48  Uhhuh. If it's $40 a day, that's 216. 21,6. Yeah. And then uh but it's $42 a day.
 2:02:58  22.
 2:03:00  Yeah. Uh but that has been uh you go up to 30 go to 30 but that's also been just for 85 days right
 2:03:09  that we've had to you know we had to hire the people train them so uh I don't know is there anything else you
 2:03:17  want to share on that for you think for now I'm happy to answer any questions I think we're at like might be 21 now
 2:03:25  you might want to come up here so it gets recorded what's that pencil too Jim would you cuz what I did I just took the
 2:03:32  number of if we did 19 times I did $40 a day so maybe I'm low times 365 it'd be $277,000.
 2:03:41  If we were at the max of 30 * $40 a day * 365 it's $438,000.
 2:03:48  So, even if we stay at 19, we're we're still okay.
 2:03:51  We're still ahead, but but that's not as as much as we want. Cuz I guess when I was looking at it, you know, of course, I'm optimistic and I'm going to say, you
 2:04:00  know, 25 to 30, so that it's it it would be significant savings, but at the end of the day, I I
 2:04:07  feel like it it does two things. A, it's saving us money, but it's also helping people, too, so that they're not sitting
 2:04:15  in the jail. they're at home and they can be doing things that will help themselves.
 2:04:19  Majority of these people are in are in sober living environments or they're they have been transported to treatment
 2:04:27  facilities to receive treatment. They're not in the jail and they're getting the treatment that they need.
 2:04:32  So that and that's the real positive too is I you've heard this 10,000 times win-win. So I I really kind of look at
 2:04:40  it as we're winning saving money and they're winning maybe trying to help get our life together two
 2:04:48  cuts both ways. It saves us bad days that we need but at the same time gets people out where they need to go. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
 2:04:56  What's been the biggest challenge to get them in there criteria?
 2:05:01  Um so we've already screened uh 160 plus people. Um and so it's finding um a
 2:05:08  couple of things. So what we're we're realizing is um we do have the right people in jail. You know, it's not just
 2:05:16  these low-level a lot of ours are high risk um and um have multiple cases or a
 2:05:23  new case and a probation violation. Um and so uh some of it is the criteria.
 2:05:29  So, we've already had conversations with the judiciary about expanding our criteria to make sure that we don't want to go too far out um and have the wrong
 2:05:37  people out of jail, but we also want to u make sure that we're casting our net wide enough to catch people. Um and so
 2:05:45  some of that is just um kind of working through a new program and trying to decide what is um our
 2:05:53  target population. Um and then uh some of that is you're you're talking about standing up a new program in a very
 2:06:00  short amount of time and that's um almost impossible you know in terms of you have to create the program train the
 2:06:08  people get the people and then get it going. Um so our team has worked really hard to get it this far this fast. I
 2:06:17  mean, um, to to to think about going from nothing to, um, we're at I think
 2:06:23  we're at 21 now and we've got, uh, 3 to five more in the pipeline. So, for us to be at
 2:06:31  85% pretty soon, um, is is pretty, um, spectacular in terms of expectations for
 2:06:38  our team. Um, because I don't think we even like I think we hired in the end of May.
 2:06:45  Yeah. you know, so here we are a couple months in. Um, and then just getting used to the system of uh how do we
 2:06:53  identify, how do we get people connected. So, another issue is housing.
 2:06:58  So, obviously with home detention, you have to have a residence. Uh, like Chris said, a lot of people need assistance getting housing. And so, that's another
 2:07:05  hoop you have to jump through. You can't just bring them out and say, "Best of luck." We have to have a place for them to go. So, we've had to negotiate and
 2:07:12  kind of work through establishing housing. Um, so that was kind of a So they didn't have have a house to begin with. I mean,
 2:07:21  a lot of them really or if they had a house, it's a drug house or it's no longer like they're in their possession, they've sat in the jail too long.
 2:07:30  Gotcha. Um, okay.
 2:07:32  So is a majority in a sober living type environment right now then?
 2:07:37  So we have a lot of people that require Yeah. housing assistance and um majority are in sober living
 2:07:43  environments and then I would say probably 15% of them probably three or four are in treatment
 2:07:53  how do they pay for that pay for what is it what does the so living house charge or whatever how does that work yeah so they vary they can um a lot of
 2:08:02  them I mean some of them are charging like 150 a week and who pays that they do so uh they they are responsible, we are not responsible.
 2:08:11  They find it they find them jobs. So they Okay. So they're they're actually working while they're in the silver house.
 2:08:17  So a lot of our um our employment rate, getting them out and getting them employed really quickly is very high in
 2:08:25  this program. So they're motivated to get jobs, I would say. Um so we we explain the program as it's not just getting you out of jail, it's getting
 2:08:33  you access to care. So, um, we look at specific referrals that they need from the beginning and start making those.
 2:08:41  And the average number of referrals, the last time I looked was five per person.
 2:08:45  So, these are high need people that need a lot of care in the community. And so, um, we're making those connections
 2:08:51  really early for them to be able to choose to do it or not. What percentage would you say is are in Grant County in a sober living environment?
 2:09:03  Oh. 95%. If they're not, they're in a they're in a treatment facility that we had done. So, we have enough housing so
 2:09:10  far. We use the rescue mission, too. So, do we have enough housing? Not if we go 60.
 2:09:18  Yeah.
 2:09:18  There's there there isn't enough housing. One of the living homes just closed. Yeah.
 2:09:24  So, one of the sober living homes just closed in the community. Yeah.
 2:09:29  So, uh no, there won't be enough housing. Uh we filled one up pretty quickly. I would assume you would.
 2:09:36  So yeah.
 2:09:37  Um but the rescue mission works well with us, but you know once they have they that's that's the problem I think
 2:09:45  for seeing in the future is that they're they have a substance abuse issue and they can't get sober with me then you know they relapse and you know we're
 2:09:54  back into you know uh look looking again of trying to be able to you know help them. So, so one of the other things we're
 2:10:02  starting to look at too is identifying for um so it could be a point we haven't fully move forward with this. This is a
 2:10:11  concept we're thinking about is how do you identify um you know routes in the comm in the justice system. So you could use this cuz we're screening and doing
 2:10:19  assessments to say maybe this one would fit in this particular program. Maybe they would be a good fit for mental health court, re-entry court, drug court. And so it's helping again get
 2:10:28  access and align to to care and services. But I mean that's more of a an advanced feature that we're thinking
 2:10:35  about once we get your PSI help.
 2:10:40  Uh uh well PSI happens after the plea agreement where um this is looking at how do we help them if this person would
 2:10:46  be um better suited for a program making those referrals for a what what it does do though Mike is that
 2:10:54  it it seems to have been what we've seen so far accelerate the process so people
 2:11:00  are in where they need to be and so now they're at a resolution of the case either like a a plea agreement or
 2:11:08  something like that moves the case along more quickly. We've had a few that have we've had in and and once they've
 2:11:16  established themselves and treat them for where they need to be, there's an agreement quickly for them to be able to.
 2:11:21  So that may help for those ones that sitting in jail for hundreds of days, however long, yes, we get them removed from sitting in jail for so long to appropriate.
 2:11:30  So it's not so much sometimes what we're who we're we're getting out, but it's also resolving those cases. Sort of like with referee court, it resolves those
 2:11:39  cases more quickly. So, you know, you're also seeing a benefit from, you know, club calendars at the court, too, because they need a treatment issue.
 2:11:48  Maybe the prosecutor doesn't want to agree because of the issues they've had for them before safety wise or whatever it may be. They come out with us and
 2:11:56  now, not only the client, but the public defender, now they're in line with what's going to happen with them. So, those are some of the benefits we've seen.
 2:12:05  Um, probably can't answer this yet, but what would you say would be the average length of stay for someone in this program?
 2:12:12  So, we haven't had our first 90-day hearing yet. So, uh, the the goal is to bring them out and um get them access to
 2:12:21  services at the time that they're placed on or ordered into uh pre-trial home detention. The courts will set a 90-day review hearing and the hope is that the case will be resolved at that hearing.
 2:12:32  So, be 90 days.
 2:12:34  We that's the hope. Um we've had some that have results before before that. And then we've had some
 2:12:41  that we approved or we we um said that they were eligible for the program and then um before the court hearing they
 2:12:47  for for that hearing they took plea agreement so no longer needed the services. So it's still it's just different things that are moving cases
 2:12:56  through as well. So, um, yeah, that we haven't had our first 90-day review hearing
 2:13:04  um yet. So, we're hoping that that's the case. What's in your contractual services?
 2:13:13  What is that, too?
 2:13:16  So, you're talking about the electronic monitoring equipment under contractual. So, so is that a fixed cost or variable?
 2:13:21  Is that per person or are we spending 40 a year regardless? Uh so it's a fixed cost per person per day. So we pay for
 2:13:29  the unit that we have for that. Um and we use BI electronic monitoring. Uh and then uh that's a leased unit. And then
 2:13:38  we pay a daily monitoring rate for that unit too. So uh there's a there's an
 2:13:45  electronic station that they have. This is located out in Anderson. And they send us alerts then based upon that track that GPS. we get reports and
 2:13:54  that's what the young lady in the front office spends the bulk of her time doing telling us where if they've been there if they've been approved to be able to
 2:14:01  go there to make sure that they're where they need to be and not that's a GPS that supports that so theoretically the 40 would cover us
 2:14:10  at capacity for the whole year you wouldn't have to come back if you were at capacity for 365 days the 40
 2:14:18  $40 yes it would more it would more than cover it it would more than cover now if we're at 50% you would have budget
 2:14:25  remaining at the end of the year it wouldn't it would not shoot yes and the other thing is too is that if you notice the budget we did for the
 2:14:34  salary is not we didn't expand the maximum amount we had for the salary I was going to ask you that those are those are not mandated salary
 2:14:42  well it is one of the one is the top one is yeah we the amount's less in 27 than it was in 26 yes
 2:14:50  change of personnel or no the person the money amount that we advertised for was if we could get somebody with the years of experience and they came in at high level.
 2:15:02  Okay.
 2:15:02  So that's why Okay, that makes sense. I wonder why it was down. That makes sense.
 2:15:06  Okay. That that monitoring is on a contract for 3 years, 5 years, one year.
 2:15:12  Is the cost going to go up year after year or?
 2:15:14  Uh so um I actually negotiated the cost down this last year. So, um, normally
 2:15:22  they they work with me really well. I have I have not had an increase in fees in probably the last five or 6 years.
 2:15:31  There's other laundry groups that do this. So, um, it's a very competitive market. I like the group that we're with
 2:15:38  though because they're close. They're here in Anderson. So, they're easy to, you know, contact and, you know, get a hold of. So,
 2:15:46  good. I just want to make sure we weren't getting an intro rate and then next year the No going to get No, I think if they did they they would
 2:15:54  they would feel the wrath if they did that because it would affect their bottom line. So we're we're not one of
 2:16:00  their biggest contractors, but we as community corrections, we get together and so like Hamilton County is a large
 2:16:08  contractor for them. So we're always talking about getting the costs down for that. as the technology improves, it's
 2:16:15  actually, you know, cheaper for them. So, and it's the same company that does our standard home detention program. So,
 2:16:23  they're getting more business. So, that's why it works in their favor as well.
 2:16:29  Did you So, between those two programs, are we getting a reimbursement back from those participants on either one
 2:16:35  program? So, so we've got a 96% uh collection rate on standard home. We do
 2:16:42  not charge them a fee on pre-trial home detention. And I think um that's probably wise of us because they're
 2:16:50  already struggling. And now once they complete my my hope is either one, they're either out and they go to
 2:16:58  probation or they come to us on standard home detention. And usually once that happens, they're stable and so then they
 2:17:05  can pay the fees. So yeah, it's I'm I I tell you what, I was
 2:17:13  probably the most Melissa won't tell you, but I was scared to death to start this program cuz I was worried what
 2:17:22  would happen with them because I'm used to a straight executed sentence, somebody coming out on pre-trial, and uh I it's made a believer out of me so far.
 2:17:33  So, but I appreciate the council has proven the funds to do the program and I appreciate all the ground work because there was a ton of ground work, more
 2:17:41  than we will ever know in order, like you said, to get this program from a crawl to a walk to a run. Um, a lot of it. So, we we appreciate all that work
 2:17:50  to do that. So, thank you. Uh, the chairman would entertain a motion regarding uh categories 2, three, and four uh for the pre-trial detention.
 2:18:01  So, moved. All right, that will be as presented. Thank you, Mr. Scott.
 2:18:07  Second. Thank you, Mr. Lming. Any questions or comments, council? Hearing none. All in favor,
 2:18:15  please signify by saying I. Those same sign. Motion carries. Thanks again for all your help. Thank you. Appreciate it.
 2:18:23  And uh we will recess uh our meeting uh until tomorrow evening.
 2:18:31  Thank you.