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The Grant County Record
in Grant County · Regular meeting · 2024-11-06 · full transcript
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    0:28  e
    0:58  e
    1:28  e
    1:58  e e
    2:49  [Applause]
    2:50  good evening and welcome good evening welcome to the Maran city council meeting it is now
    2:58  November 6 202 24 700 p.m. in the Marin city council chambers and we're going to call this meeting to order and we'll
    3:07  start out with prayer and our guest today is Mr Amon King if you want to make your way up to the microphone come
    3:14  on up sir and just make sure you hit the red
    3:23  button come on let's pray together father God we come now saying thank you for just giving us another day
    3:31  waking us all up this morning and giving us breath in our bodies the clothes that we have on our back the food that we were able to eat today everything we
    3:38  need to be able to live move and have being and I want to pray that your will will be done in this meeting tonight I
    3:45  pray that um everything that happens tonight through this agenda would be for the betterment of our community for our
    3:52  city for the people that live here and I pray for every individual in leadership that you would continue to cover them that you'll continue to lead and guide
    4:00  and protect them along the path that you have for their lives and ultimately we want Maring to be a place to that is not just good economically but that
    4:09  represents you and so help us uh through this meeting tonight to move a little bit closer to that in the name of Jesus we pray
    4:16  amen thank you Amonte and now the Pledge of Allegiance by councilman Eric Marshall to the flag of the United
    4:25  States of America and to the Republic for stand Nation God
    4:34  indivisible andice for all all right thank you so much and
    4:44  we're going to move into tonight's uh actually we're going to do roll call before we move into that so Madam clerk roll call Kane here Marshall Here For
    4:53  Eyes here Brunner here kleene here Divine here Wht here C here
    5:01  McKinley here okay now we're going to move into tonight's Community Spotlight and we're
    5:07  going to Spotlight the 22 Grant recipients in celebration so I'd like to invite Don Brown and Megan Maas from the
    5:16  Community Foundation up to the microphone and they're going to share some information about that Grant and
    5:23  then we'll do a photo go ahead can you turn the microphone on yes thank thank you so much for having us
    5:30  here tonight I'm Don Brown this is Megan Maas and we are delighted we brought a couple of friends with us raise your hand if you are friends back here thank
    5:38  you thank you very much exactly so we are celebrating the 212 Grand cycle tonight the reason we
    5:45  named it the 212 Grant cycle is be because at 210 degrees water is hot two I'm sorry 21 degrees water is hot 212
    5:54  degrees water boils that means one degree makes a significant difference when water boils it can actually power a
    6:01  team engine and that's pretty powerful the folks back here that Reed the 212 grants this grant cycle obviously didn't know we were going to have a $400,000
    6:10  Grant cycle uh this year was a total surprise to them thanks to the generosity of the mayor um this was his brilliant idea and for you guys for
    6:18  approving that so we wanted to take um some time tonight to show you how we dispersed that $400,000 through our grant making
    6:26  process as you recall um this is a partnership between the Community Foundation and the City of Marian um the Community Foundation did not accept any
    6:34  of this money for ourselves this is a service that we provided to you because Megan does it really really well and
    6:42  because of the uh the committee that we have uh we had three committee members from the foundation and four committee members that were appointed by the mayor
    6:50  and they volunteered their time to do this um this is what Partnerships are all about sometimes the foundation has the money and the nonprofits have the
    6:58  resources in this case the city had arpa money and we had the resources to help you and we would like to celebrate the 15 recipients tonight uh would you like
    7:07  to read those off Nick or would you like me to I would be honored to read them off but actually um I know we had two
    7:14  council members that sat on the selection committee so we did I'm put them on a on the spot actually so maybe um
    7:23  councilman um Kane if you want to read the left side and councilman Klein on the right side does that sound good since you guys were part of the decision
    7:30  making I'll let you do I would be glad to do that so uh starting these aren't any any given order other than uh from
    7:38  top to the bottom the Boys and Girls Club of Grant County cancer Services of Grant
    7:45  County Cardinal Greenway carry Services first light Child Advocacy
    7:53  Center Grant County Rescue Mission Grant Regional adult
    8:00  education and historic Maran and we have job source Meals on
    8:10  Wheels radiant Health St Martin deor Center the Quilter's Hall of Fame The
    8:17  Salvation Army and the Wilson vaugh Hostess house all right thank you council members and so what we would
    8:24  like to do is have one representative just one from from each organization because we only have so much room up
    8:31  here to come up to the front and so we can get a picture with one person from each organization the and the council uh
    8:39  as well as Don and Megan with the giant check so yes we brought a giant check
    8:46  very giant check and Megan and I just want to make remind you in case you didn't notice we both wore daisies tonight for the city of Marian so we we
    8:54  bring it when we come so um yes thank you I I'm yeah it's good attention to detail that I was not noticing tonight
    9:02  so I appreciate appreciate that so yes so if you're part of one of those organizations just send one representative up just into the middle
    9:11  front of the room here if you could and then the council members will kind of
    9:16  join in behind and uh we'll get a photo
    9:46  photo taking too Hi how are you as long as everybody stays
    9:57  like I don't know oh I was going to start doing some
   10:05  uh okay Megan your in needs to come up just a smidge there we go I got you
   10:13  okay um red I can't see you red and green I can't see
   10:22  you okay I think we got everybody I can't see you Nick there he is
   10:36  okay okay yeah all right ready one two three
   10:48  [Applause]
   11:15  okay I'll let give a chance for everyone to either sit down or leave you're welcome to stay of course we always like a good audience here to see what's going
   11:23  on in the city um that's exciting I'm glad I will say uh I was very happy as how quickly that went through so um
   11:31  appreciate councilman Klein and councilman Kane for being part of those decisions and um I guess that's all they wanted
   11:39  everyone's leaving meeting's over taking their money and going yeah we'll give a moment here for them
   11:46  to clear out U but yes uh that went really quick really smooth and uh I know that's going to do a lot I I will say
   11:54  this Mr President that this city would not be the city that it is without our nonprofits that step forward and and do
   12:04  what they do because they're they're good at what they do and we appreciate them that's very true I appreciate
   12:12  that councilman Klein did you want to add any words as far as the process no I'll ditto councilman
   12:22  Kane all right sounds good well thank you so much um we're going to move into now the city employee
   12:30  Spotlight um let me pull this one up here oh look at that nice picture um so
   12:37  our city employee Spotlight tonight is on Marian police Sergeant Greg Melton um he was actually uh nominated by the uh
   12:48  Chief Gilbert I actually had reached out and chief Gilbert said I actually have somebody that I really strongly would
   12:54  like to um recommend so Sergeant Greg Melton Melton sorry let me get it up
   13:02  here um this is what Chief Gilbert had to say he said Sergeant Greg Melton joined the Marine Police Department family in 2005 and attended the Indiana
   13:12  Law Enforcement Academy that year graduating with a 94% academic average before beginning his career as a patrol
   13:20  officer since then Sergeant Melton has served the citizens of mar and Faithfully on the front line helping people in need and standing up to Career
   13:28  criminals who harm others uh as a way of life Greg has earned multiple formal letters of recognition and has received
   13:35  numerous notes of appreciation from citizens for his good work in 2016 officer Melton was awarded the MPD Award
   13:44  of Valor for a life-saving action in which he and his Partners entered the missa River to rescue a drowning child
   13:51  he was submerged in unresponsive the child survived due to officer Melton's courageous actions one of my first and
   13:58  easy decisions upon being assigned as Chief in January was to promote s or to promote Greg to Sergeant to formalize
   14:06  the leadership role that he has exhibited inherently for years even without stripes on his sleeves additionally Sergeant Melton was has
   14:14  served as a member of the MPD honor guard and he earned the 2012 MPD Top Gun award he has attended multiple demanding
   14:23  serious crash investigation courses and is certified by The Institute of police technology and management at the University of
   14:31  North Florida as a serious crash Reconstructionist based on that certification uh Sergeant Melton is
   14:38  assigned to the MPD serious and fatal crash investigation team and he is also a devoted husband and father and coaches
   14:46  youth in high school sports in his spare time in summary Sergeant Melton is a servant leader who stands as an example
   14:53  to all officers who have followed in his footsteps since 2005 he is a humble reliable and courageous role model and
   15:01  leader who can be counted on regardless of the challenge please accept my nomination of this fine officer for recognition before the council so that
   15:10  was from Chief Gilbert so um Sergeant Melton if you want to come up to the the front you're welcome to bring your your amazing wife as well if you would like
   15:18  since she is you know part of the package did you bring any other family members anyone oh all of them you can bring them all up here bring them all up
   15:27  here all right
   15:29  [Applause]
   15:34  all
   15:40  [Applause]
   15:45  right everyone else
   15:59  come on up you were hiding in the back I'm so
   16:08  sorry all right ready one two three
   16:18  [Applause]
   16:46  and yes sometimes social media is your friend and that's where I found this photo I could it was a good one it was a good
   16:55  one though yeah yeah
   16:59  [Laughter]
   17:00  oh did you take that photo one of our own council members took that photo look at that full circle all right all right
   17:08  give me a moment here okay okay moving on to the consent
   17:16  agenda for the approval of minutes consideration of pre-approved claims and consideration of claims um happy to
   17:24  entertain any discussion if not I'd entertain a motion
   17:32  Mr President I move that we approve the consent agenda I have a motion by councilman
   17:41  Kane second by councilman kleene any other discussion Madame clerk roll call Kane I
   17:50  Marshall I For Eyes Madam clerk I'll have to abstain on the minutes I will approve the consideration of
   17:58  pre-approved claims and consideration of claims Brunner I Klein yes Divine yes
   18:06  Whitten yes Cal Gill I McKinley yes all right just a reminder I forgot
   18:14  to say at the beginning of the meeting but we actually have transitioned into our new camera system and so it is tied directly into our microphones now so
   18:22  just as a reminder you have to have your microphone on otherwise nobody at home will hear you at all anymore so just um
   18:29  got to be good on that okay so moving into committee reports we have any council members with committee
   18:38  reports councilwoman Divine um the board of Works met this
   18:47  week and um the items that they went through on their agenda included um the discussion about the police and fire
   18:55  Merit systems which came before us at the last meeting um then Maran Police Department also transferred some vehicles uh to Marian
   19:05  Community Schools for them to be able to use for transportation use there um and then the bid recommendation for the
   19:13  alley restoration um it was recommended to accept the only bid submitted by Scott
   19:20  Grant County Asphalt um and I've got some details on that if you guys need that but it was 27 cents per square foet
   19:28  foot for removal of the existing asphalt uh the same for
   19:34  grading um for placing Stone was 10 $110 per ton removal and disposal of existing
   19:43  Stone to a depth of 4 in before asphalt paving was 29 cents per square foot
   19:50  surfacing was 110 per ton and the uh binder asphalt was 110 per T and
   20:01  tree and shrub removal was $35 per hour so I don't know what that total amount equals to or how many alleys that is but
   20:09  those were the that was the bit information did you guys discuss how that decision is going to ma be made on
   20:17  what's done and and how um I actually this is a summary for me because I at the last minute wasn't able to attend so
   20:24  I don't know that they had that discussion um but I know like I said at least we have the pricing that I assume
   20:33  I don't see Mike was uh is going to be held over into oh he is hiding in the back corner which I assume is the purpose behind it was to hold it over to
   20:41  the new year um because that's how he's discussed with us before and then I know um Jerry fos Knight also presented
   20:49  another 13 houses for them to approve demolition on um I believe that they had
   20:57  three of them that they gave additional time to that individuals appeared and wanted to wanted some additional time to take some action on them um and then
   21:06  they Revisited several that they had already given additional time to and worked with those owners as far as
   21:13  decisions for uh demolition thank you so much any other committee
   21:24  reports all right we'll move on there is no unfinished business all new business this evening and we'll begin with
   21:31  General ordinance 19-2020 petition to vacate a portion of a public way first
   21:38  reading an ordinance to vacate a portion of South John Street from 3906 South
   21:44  John Street to East 41st Street from Nebraska Street to South boot Street in
   21:51  the city of Mary Indiana Indiana Wesley and University would like to vacate a portion of a public way of South John
   21:59  Street from 41st Street to the south side of 3906 South John Street and the
   22:07  vacation from 41st Street from boot Street to Nebraska speaking attorney Phil
   22:19  Stevenson on I must have turned it off realiz we still on thank you very much uh we're here for the purpose of trying
   22:29  to close a couple streets as she just indicated to you because the university is intending to build a new basketball
   22:36  arena uh which is going to be quite a project and the trouble is because of the size of the project we need to
   22:44  close these two streets which includes as was indicated to you John Street from 41st Street to 3906 South John now the
   22:54  university literally owns everything on both sides of that area of John Street we stopped at 3906 South John because
   23:02  that's the one private owner that's Nancy Rosen and M Rosen has already signed a consent to the closure and then
   23:12  the same on uh 41st Street from Nebraska to boot Street the university owns all of those properties on both sides but
   23:20  the arena is simply so large it's not going to fit unless we're able to close those two streets now I have with me
   23:29  tonight uh a lot of people from IW so that if there's any questions at all you have somebody here can answer them uh
   23:36  don don Rowley is the assistant vice president of physical facilities Mark demichaels the vice president of student
   23:43  development and athletic and Jeffrey Rays is the new CFO at IW and by the way just moved here and bought a house in
   23:51  Maran so we have someone new thank you and Jon Jones who's the vice president of advancements they're all here tonight
   23:58  uh to to handle it and again uh we're asking tonight to Simply to do the first reading and ask for a public hearing to
   24:06  be set at the next council meeting so that we can give anybody a chance to speak who may want to speak
   24:14  about this development so before I do questions uh Mr demichel is going to come up to you
   24:22  and tell you a little bit more about the project and then either he or I can hopefully answer any question questions that you might
   24:31  have thank you and welcome thank you Mr President council
   24:38  members um i s send my greetings and regrets from our president Dr John kaga his this was a priority for him he
   24:45  really wanted to be here tonight I think there's only one thing that would have kept him from from coming here tonight and that was his surgeon telling him you're not allowed to leave the house
   24:53  yet he had a fairly uh significant surgery done just two weeks ago right after our homecoming and he's not been cleared to uh travel yet and his wife is
   25:02  not letting him leave so uh but he understands how important this is tonight and I'm sure he's probably even watching us right
   25:09  now um before I get into some of the talk about a few of the benefits that we see the win-win benefits we see of of the building of the IM third Arena
   25:17  should you approve uh these Street vacations I do want to address a concern that we had and I want to address it honestly uh two weeks ago at our
   25:26  homecoming we did have a a ceremonial groundbreaking for the construction of the im3d Arena I want to emphasize that
   25:33  that was a ceremonial groundbreaking we were excited we had just gotten a $24 million endowment from Mily we had opportunities to partner with Grant
   25:42  County and marry and nonprofits we were excited and we knew with the impending Indiana weather the impending surgery of
   25:49  our President we had one opportunity to celebrate with a ceremonial groundbreaking and we did it that day we also understand that the perception that
   25:58  that sent to possibly you and to the city that we assumed that this approval would happen um is legitimate and we
   26:07  understand how that could be perceived that way and we apologize that was not our intent I hope you understand and believe that our heart was not to
   26:14  disrespect or assume anything we value our partnership with the city and we would never want to do anything that would offend or make the city feel like
   26:23  less of a partner than what we need and what we value so we apologize for that we own that and hope that we can move forward to seeing the benefits of what
   26:31  the construction of this Arena could do for what we believe is both the university and for the city of Maran so we're expect to be honest with
   26:40  you we're really excited about this project I was involved in the the construction of the Wildcat football stadium as well and there are no football players or coaches here so I'm
   26:48  I feel comfortable saying I'm even more excited about this project and there's a reason for that the main reason for that is because of the Partnerships that that
   26:57  are developing out of this this as you know uh we just received a the community just received over $24 million Lily Grant and this arena is a part of that
   27:05  Grant and that is a Community Partnership Grant and so as we looked at the building of this Arena potential
   27:13  construction of this Arena from the beginning a priority for us was what can an arena how can an arena be a win-win
   27:21  for the city of Marion and for Indiana westan University that was a driving force the entire time because that's where our heart was and because we knew
   27:29  that that was a part of what Lily was looking for in this partnership so conversations happened early on and included such City areas as Maring
   27:38  Community Schools Grand County Special Olympics YMCA Kings Academy they all
   27:44  provided support letters to us and to the Lily Foundation confirming and affirming the the opportunities for
   27:52  further relationships further Partnerships that would result in the building of the im3d Arena so those those are just a few of the Partnerships
   28:00  we're excited about that will expand what we're able to do with nonprofits within the city of Maran also what we're very excited about
   28:10  is as you know as you may know um we have over 10,000 High School Middle School students that come to Maran just in our summer athletic events alone we
   28:18  have huge camps team events clinics conferences several years ago um I used
   28:25  Kelly School of Business did an economic impact study on the impact Indiana Wesley had on the economy of Grant County and they they realized that IW
   28:35  related activities alone led to a $ 48.1 million direct spending into Grant County when we look at things like the
   28:43  im3d arena and the opportunity to not only increase the capacity of the current events that we host at that at our facilities but increase the number
   28:51  of events that we can host at our facilities with the addition of an arena that has three basketball courts Sports
   28:58  and and capacity for even more we're excited about the positive impact that could have both on us and on the economic impact on the city and Grant
   29:06  County and then lastly I would say with approval and construction of the Arena we are planning on adding new programs uh we are ready have committed to adding
   29:15  a men's volleyball team I don't know if any of you are volleyball fans but we will add men's volleyball a couple of Basketball Club teams and then we're in
   29:22  the in talks about what additional Sports we would add so as you I'm sure you know every time we add a program a
   29:29  new program um it brings with it additional students which gives our campus opportunity to grow and with that also comes additional employees and
   29:38  anytime we can add more employment opportunities to the institution and to the city we look at that as very positive win-win thing for both us and
   29:45  for the city we're really excited about the potential of this beautiful im3rd Arena on our campus and in the city of Maran
   29:54  we really believe it's going to be a significant asset to our school and to this city both economically and in
   30:02  building a stronger relationship partnership with the community that we share on a personal note if it's okay for me to get personal as a 28-year
   30:10  resident of Marian who had two daughters who were proud Maran Giants and who actually found a way me found a way to
   30:19  wear purple to support my daughter on the Maran Giants volleyball team and if you don't know why it would be hard for me to put on purple I was the athletic
   30:27  director Indiana Wesleyan at the time and there's another institution in the county that mirrors the colors of Marian
   30:35  High School but because I love my daughter and I I love the city of Marian I wore purple to support my daughter uh
   30:42  at Marian Giants volleyball matches um I appreciate and have experienced the value that the city brings to Indiana
   30:51  Wesleyan and the value that Indiana wasian brings to the city and projects like this that I think can enhance that partnership
   30:58  um is something that gets me and US excited so we appreciate any question that you have um that about this project thank
   31:06  you great thank you so much I might just add we have been to the street committee there at approval of this we've also
   31:15  went with the city utilities to talk with them to work out those issues so we've attempted to ensure that this is not an issue anywhere else but just so
   31:23  you know that we have done that so if there's any questions we'll be happy to try to answer those real quick were were there any
   31:31  public safety concerns fire department access or anything like that my understanding there was not
   31:39  okay and if you notice I put on the big screen back here I'll show
   31:46  you well I have the mic so it was in the packet uh the the layout where it's going it was I think it's been scanned
   31:54  once or twice it was a little bit faded but but I thought I'd show you so this is we're they're asking to cut the
   32:02  street off right here at Nebraska all the way to
   32:09  boots right here so this these two blocks of 4 first and then John Street all the way up to here that's the
   32:19  residence there so it's just like an upside down te right here that they're wanting to vacate and then these houses
   32:27  will stay and their act their access will be out and coming around to Felton Street so they would cut off 41st Street
   32:37  and then part of John Street just want everyone to have a visual the residents on that culde saac
   32:46  back there concerned or are they good that everybody on that culd toac is actually is owned by IW those the rental
   32:54  properties but that's the reason why we modified that you know originally was going to go all the way over to Harmon Street and we decided it would be better
   33:02  to move it back to provide better access for them but IW does own that entire call to
   33:11  SEC I've spoken to at least one on that called to sack and no concerns whatsoever in fact they were pretty
   33:20  excited about it any other council members have questions
   33:28  Mr President I I did attend the traffic commission uh meeting and the question was asked uh Mr Whitten you asked if
   33:37  there was any concerns there was no concerns brought up at that meeting um it it passed unanimously from the traffic commission giving their
   33:45  blessings and I know the uh Indiana Wesley and has has met tell me if I'm wrong but they have met with the fire
   33:54  department to voice any concerns and so forth and so they they work closely with the the police department uh and the
   34:02  fire department on any concerns and access that the fire department may have to the uh the
   34:14  college all right any other questions or statements okay well if no one has any
   34:24  other questions do you guys have anything else you would like to add I think that's all we appreciate your consideration okay I would entertain a
   34:33  motion Mr President I'd like to make a motion to pass General ordinance 19-22 to Second reading and public
   34:41  hearing second I have a motion by councilman for I second by councilman Whitten any other
   34:49  discussion Madame clerk rall Kane I Marshall I for I I Brunner I I kleene
   34:59  yes Divine yes Wht yes cgill I McKinley
   35:06  yes thank you very much thank you so much appreciate you guys coming tonight okay that will move on to Second
   35:16  reading public hearing at the next council meeting moving into General ordinance 20- 2024 elected official salaries first
   35:24  reading an ordinance prescribing the process for determining salary increases for Maran Municipal elected officials
   35:32  and providing for the effective date thereof this ordinance limits pay raises for Marian's 12 elected officials mayor
   35:41  city council City Clerk and city court judge to no more than the average raise given the city's full-time employees the
   35:49  previous year the ordinance also allows for very limited exceptions to this in the cases of changes in city or
   35:57  ordinances or state statutes and it explains how the average of City employee raises is
   36:05  calculated the goal is to maintain fiscal responsibility and to avoid large disparities with salary increases given
   36:13  to city employees speaking councilman Mike Klein thank you thank you Miss president
   36:22  councel the remainder of the audience um the executives summary I think is pretty
   36:30  self-explanatory uh the buck on raises for city employees including elected official stops with the city council and
   36:38  I believe that it's an excellent way of showing fiscal responsibility is to write Herd on raises for us the mayor city council
   36:47  city clerk City Court Judge this does not guarantee raises um nothing should be automatic
   36:54  about raises they ought to be based on Merit and Pro performance um so this doesn't guarantee automatic raises all
   37:02  it does is limit how large the raises can be if the electeds get them um
   37:10  rightly Andor wrongly a lot of folks think elected officials already paid too
   37:17  much and that big raises are out of touch with the lives of a lot of people and we can show we care about that money
   37:26  in tax payers pockets and not just the money and ours um people on Municipal
   37:33  payrolls haven't always seen the kind of income growth that electeds have seen in some years this keeps electeds um
   37:43  elected officials accountable to the public that we're supposed to serve and it shows that city
   37:50  employees that we don't think I know and I know I don't think they but we want to make sure they don't think that we think
   37:57  we're better than they are um and my first idea was to have it take
   38:03  any raises take effect after the next municipal election heard from too many people and with some logic that that
   38:11  wasn't going to work so this was my idea on how to hold the line on raises and
   38:18  the the number is the cumulative cumulative average of All City full-time
   38:26  employees for the previous year and they have until the the controller's office
   38:32  has until uh June to get that in so it's not like we need to know right now it
   38:39  takes it takes time I know that but anyway it's not a guarantee on
   38:46  raises and it merely um sets a limit on how big raises can be thank
   38:55  you thank you councilman Klein any council members have questions or any
   39:04  discussion yeah go ahead I just I just thought of something it mentions uh Council President McKinley
   39:13  thought of something that I hadn't thought of in that uh cycle or so ago we
   39:20  included more duties we we expanded the job of City Court a little bit and that
   39:27  also expands the job of the clerk because of the time and that's why there's an exception for them because we
   39:36  have in the past expanded those duties in that time and that's why that was put in
   39:44  there all right thank you for that any council members questions
   39:54  discussion Mr chairman I haven't seen in all the years of the
   40:03  city of am Maran any issues with any amount of raises that
   40:11  have been given elected officials forever absolutely
   40:20  forever um in in fact
   40:28  most elect officials are passed over from years to
   40:35  years um and and that's why elected officials including the mayor uh this
   40:42  position have fallen behind for years um in their salaries that they
   40:52  receive I think this is a uh a complete overreach by the city
   41:02  council this the raises are discussed at budget times completely it's transparent during
   41:12  budget talks city council should not be dictating to the clerk's office the
   41:21  mayor's office the judges what their salaries can be I I think that is a
   41:28  complete overreach of this body when salaries are discussed every
   41:38  year during budget talks that's my comment thank you Mr chairman for your
   41:46  time thank you any other council members vice president Cil yeah I I kind of
   41:53  agree with Mr Kane on this as well um I've been associated with the city for over 30 years between the fire department and the council and I've
   42:02  never seen it an issue with raises before in fact I know the council went 20 years without a raise I know the mayor's office went 16 years without a
   42:10  raise um I I just don't think this is a necessary thing that that we need to do right now just because I I don't see an
   42:20  issue with it I've never heard from one constituent on it nothing so that's my two sets
   42:28  thank you any other council members council member councilman for I sorry yeah I'm
   42:36  I'm in support of this ordinance I think that uh we do need to have the checks and balances in this and and um I think as as far as our uh fiduciary
   42:45  responsibilities to our constituents I would have to agree with Mike on this 100% um we don't we shouldn't be giving
   42:52  ourselves more of a raise than than the regular employee and there has to be some type of checks
   43:00  and balances on this um you could you could get into situations to where you know even if elected officials are below
   43:09  the norm in in other areas or other demographics those are those demographics we know what our salary is
   43:16  going to be when we run for office and take office normally we don't do it for the money we do it for the Civil Service
   43:24  and uh I think that this ordinance really needs to be in place just for checks and balances and then uh um we would know and could answer to our
   43:33  constituents that uh we have a safeguard in place to where if a new Administration takes office they can't
   43:40  give themselves a 30% raise or 25% raise or 10% raise and the employees only get
   43:47  3% or 5% or whatever I think it's a great ordinance and I support
   43:53  it thank you councilman Force any there council members councilman Klein
   44:01  um just a reminder that we do indeed have the final say on
   44:09  raises for electeds because we're the ones who passed the budget and I just
   44:16  think we need to show respon and maybe if it hasn't happened that's great may not happen again may not happen
   44:24  ever but then again it could and it probably has and we but
   44:33  we do have the final say on the budget so because we pass
   44:40  it all right thank you oh go ahead councilman Marshall yes
   44:49  I'm uh when you say average raise uh how is that going to be determined what did you I think you mentioned something about that yeah
   44:58  all the full-time employees you crunch the numbers what's the average raise of all our full-time
   45:05  employees okay so had had this ordinance been in existence prior to this year how
   45:13  would that have affected our decisions we made for the current budget we pass for 20 that's a question that I don't
   45:19  have an answer to I don't know I'll be honest you would assume it have an effect I'm assuming that's why you've
   45:27  come to this ordinance is because of a reaction to our budget that we just passed or where is it's coming from I
   45:35  guess is my question the back of my fevered brain okay because I it's been said that there
   45:43  hasn't been a problem before so that's why I'm curious no I just well a
   45:50  um I just think I think as electeds we need to set an example on fiscal and I
   45:58  mean I explained all that but yeah I don't to answer your original question I don't have an answer I don't
   46:10  know thank you councilwoman Divine is the goal of this to make sure that we
   46:17  don't have any huge pay discrepancies in the future is is kind of the goal to
   46:24  make sure elected officials are seeing cost of living increases or regular salary increases so that we don't have
   46:31  another 10 15 20 year um time span without any type of adjustment is that
   46:39  part of this yeah I I'll chime in I think that's where I was going with this because you
   46:47  know we had basically a correction made because of neglect of not doing that for 15 years so it seems to me like if we're
   46:55  going to pass something like this then they're all Al be a mechanism that says that every year we do give a raise or I don't know um well it's not anti- raise
   47:04  it's just setting a limit on the raise okay if there is one and it does in there if whatever the the average is is
   47:13  less than 2% then we don't get anything the electeds don't get anything because if if employees are
   47:21  getting that smaller raise if money for whatever reason is that tight lets not poke that
   47:30  bear and are we thinking and I'm trying and kind of going backwards through some of the process we did this year with the
   47:38  salaries I know that there wasn't a lot of conversation about cost of living um
   47:44  are we should there be language in here kind of to talk more on um what Mr Marshall said is kind of instead of
   47:54  putting it towards average inre increases maybe look at that cost of living piece as well um because
   48:01  ultimately that's what we're talking about 90% of the time is if the cost of living has gone up to such a point that
   48:09  we need to increase everybody then we as elected officials need to see some of that as well or
   48:17  because that's where those discrepancies I feel like come from is if you're giving a 5% cost of living increase and then another 3% and you know very
   48:26  quickly you're at 10 to 15% difference where Council may say well we don't need that and then we get another adjustment
   48:34  where you're hitting those larger numbers um I'm just thinking out loud on other language maybe to clarify this or
   48:42  um my short answer to that is no that raises ought to be on Merit
   48:50  and not automatic
   49:05  Council woman Divine did you have anything else well I'm still kind of thinking on it on the language um and that's where
   49:14  some of my questions was if we were trying to adjust cost of living or if we were just trying to if he said marit um
   49:22  I'm not sure how we would look at Merit for elected officials I guess is my other question I
   49:30  mean if you're thinking you want it to be on Merit then you're saying Merit for the employees and how they do to get
   49:39  that average amount to then figure up elected official I'm sorry I'm just trying to run it through my head yeah
   49:46  for the electeds it's merely based on that average I mean we have elections to show
   49:55  whether we have Merit or not
   50:11  you want us to come back to you either way okay sorry either way I'm yeah I'm still some of the language there you got
   50:19  to think it through um and I don't know is this something we probably don't have a committee other
   50:27  than the whatever the finance committee or the budget committee to kind of discuss the language not that we can't keep doing it here but to maybe do
   50:36  further conversation on it because it sounds like there's obviously there's some you know back and forth on what the meaning
   50:45  behind it what the language should be and I don't know that I'm necessarily against setting some sort of
   50:55  limit because you don't want to allow elected officials to just have cart Blan to raise our in you know decide okay well we've had a rough year so we ought
   51:03  to get a 20% increase to make more people want to you know become elected officials I don't know that we need to
   51:10  do that but um if it's something that also protects so that we don't have to have another major course correction
   51:18  with salaries for elected officials um but it sounds like the thought process wasn't to have it be
   51:25  automatic um but more to set kind of the limits of
   51:32  what we would be looking at if we were deciding to do some sort of elected official pay increase am I hearing that
   51:40  right yes okay and I'm not I'm not sure this language says that to me I guess is where I'm
   51:49  going 100% why I'm just saying okay um the language
   52:00  simply says this is a this is the limit on
   52:06  what uh Municipal elected employees can get unless ordinance or statute expands
   52:15  their duties any other council members
   52:23  councilman Force I I think I I think we're we're just comp complicating this too much I think that what I get from uh Mike's ordinance is and Mike correct me
   52:31  if I'm wrong um I think on this budget session we went around and and different employees got different amounts of
   52:38  raises so I think what Mike is saying is that if all those raises you take the average of the percentage of raise that
   52:46  they got like we gave 5.5 some of them got 6.5 some of them got 15% some of them got 18% if you take the average of
   52:54  all those what this ordinance States is that elected official cannot go over above that average of the raise that the
   53:03  city employees got is that right is that what you're trying to say yeah so if the average of all the city full-time city
   53:11  employees was 12% sure we can't go over 12% 12% rate which just makes setting a
   53:18  limit yeah it just makes sense I mean to me is is the way I read the ordinance and all of it except for special
   53:26  exceptions and he's got that in there if we just give everybody a 5% raise that's going to be the average then the elected
   53:35  officials can't get over 5% raise in that budget season is what he's saying except for special exceptions for the
   53:42  judges the clerks that's the way I'm reading it is that correct Mike yeah that's
   53:50  correct and I think it's a good Safeguard what I mean if we give the if we give a cost of living to the to all the employees at 3% which we have done
   53:59  the previous councils have done and US veterans have done and we take a 5% what does that say I think that's what he's
   54:07  trying to negate here is that if we give employees a 3% raise we can't get over a 3%
   54:14  raise to and the elected officials can't take more than because we've done some corrections on this budget season and I
   54:22  think we're good with that right now so and we're not saying we can't give police 7% or fire 6% or the mayor 7%
   54:34  he's just saying that the average of all of them we cannot as elected officials go over
   54:42  that now now see that confuses me because you said elected officials the judges the clerks the mayor us we are
   54:49  all said except special thank you very much there's special exceptions in there all right just one second are you done Gary or not all right come on well if he
   54:58  wants a go ahead he's going to hold on you got to for vice president all elected officials is what this is saying and then you said a while ago that well
   55:07  the judges are a little different because we gave them more responsibility we gave Mike graph more responsibility we gave Jerry fnite more responsibility
   55:15  um we even took on responsibilities with the vouchers now so I think it's I'm I guess I'm looking
   55:24  at it more and you're saying well the if the cityy employees only get 3% then we you know there's a safeguard in there
   55:30  that we can't what about the 20 years that all the employees was getting at least 3% for 20 years but we didn't take
   55:38  nothing the mayor's office didn't take nothing I mean it to me it's kind of I feel like this if it ain't broke don't fix it situation and our Safeguard is
   55:47  just what like you said M Klein is that I guess our evaluation of how we're doing is if we're not doing our job people don't think we're doing it right
   55:55  they're going to vote as out of LW I don't think we need a mechanism like this in there and like you said we we passed a
   56:04  budget ultimately we're going to say what raises we think are right or wrong eventually
   56:11  anyway thank you councilman Kane well I certainly
   56:19  agree with with Mr Cowgill and my exact statement was going to be don't fix something that isn't broken this is
   56:27  never this has never happened in the history of the city council now if we were to use this
   56:35  ordinance and took an average of the salary increases of the city employees and then
   56:43  matched and and match that we would have given given ourselves a bigger raise than what we got that's a
   56:52  fact but that's what the ordinance says it says you can't exceed it yeah not exceed we could it wouldn't no no no
   57:00  no no no wait a minute floor yep councilman King so if you take the average of all the city
   57:10  raises let's say that's 8% we would have given ourselves an 8%
   57:18  raise we did not do that and we wouldn't have done that this has never happened we're we're we're we're trying to fix
   57:26  something like Mr Cala said that's not broken that's not broken um the question
   57:34  was asked earlier too does this uh address cost of living increases
   57:42  no absolutely it does not it does not and so uh here again I I think this
   57:51  is uh wasted effort this has never happened in the history of the city council and I am totally
   58:00  against this because I think this is a complete overr overreach because we
   58:06  are uh infringing on the city clerk's office the judges and the mayor's
   58:15  office we have discussions at budget talks this can certainly be ironed out at that that
   58:25  time without without adding another layer of ordinances to the city thank
   58:31  you thank you councilman kin let me reread the very first sentence of the
   58:39  ordinance no salary increase for any Marian Municipal elected official shall exceed the cumulative average pay
   58:47  increase of all non- full-time elected Municipal Employees in the previous year's budget it does not guarantee any
   58:56  Municipal official any raise the the the average increase could be 8% that is not
   59:05  a guarantee that any elected official gets 8% it just limits it at no more
   59:12  than 8% this guarantees nobody any raises it just sets a limit for when
   59:20  things get out of hand and just because something has never happened doesn't doesn't mean that something new can't
   59:29  happen thank you and I just wanted some uh clarification from what I heard towards the end of councilman Kane he
   59:36  from what I understand he said that we could have taken the 8% but we didn't is that what you said I just want to make sure you're clear okay that you'd
   59:44  understand that yeah and I'm throwing an 8% out there as a guess that would be a total guess I
   59:52  don't I don't think anybody has those figures that that we could come up with a but but but it would certainly be more
   59:58  if we wanted to give ourselves and match that cumulative raise we have that
 1:00:07  authority to do so but we I've never seen this council do that okay thank
 1:00:16  you any other council members and and one more thing you know
 1:00:26  a lot of people and and in and in the audience and people that are listening online and so
 1:00:33  forth when we gave our we did give ourselves a raise the city council we gave ourselves a
 1:00:41  raise and I I think I mentioned it at a time I think it was $37 a month it was like a half if you want to bring it down
 1:00:49  to is and I always said this uh because I'm in the fuel business so it's like giving ourselves a half a tank of gas
 1:00:57  per month that's what our raise was so it's it's not it's literally not thousands and thousands of dollars
 1:01:07  it's it's a few dollars every month that's what it amounts to all right thank
 1:01:15  you anybody else I I will add just listening um
 1:01:26  well first of all councilman Klein I know he put some work into putting this together and I appreciate your where you're coming from on this and wanted to
 1:01:35  be put some safeguards in and some protection mechanisms and as a fiscal conservative myself I do
 1:01:44  appreciate um where you're coming from on this um just one thing that stood out that you said though because I I really
 1:01:52  came into this with an open mind just to hear it out is that you said said elections something to the effect of Elections elections will show the Merit
 1:02:02  um and it really stood out to me that you know our accountability is with the people that vote us and if they don't like the budgets we pass they don't like
 1:02:11  the raises we give well then run against us get us out of here right and um I think that at the
 1:02:18  end of the day ultimately that's that's the final ordinance so to speak if we if they don't like it don't vote for us um
 1:02:28  the other concern I I have with this is if you have five council members that want a raise above the
 1:02:37  average then it just takes those five council members to uh say this is something that would be passed it would only take those five
 1:02:46  to get rid of this ordinance or amend it um so it's as as easily as it could possibly be passed it's easily could be
 1:02:54  gotten rid of or ended if you just had a simple majority um and and so it's not
 1:03:00  like locked tight um the other thing was you know with I feel like you could force the
 1:03:09  hand that I'm not saying this Council but future councils would feel the need that they
 1:03:18  would need to give a raise just to keep up in the fear that if we don't give a raise say for five or 10 years there's
 1:03:27  an economic slump or whatever to the council or the mayor then when that time
 1:03:33  is up well can't catch up we're stuck at the cumulative at that point which essentially I think is what has happened
 1:03:41  to what we did this year um is you know from what I understand the previous administration didn't give a raise to
 1:03:49  the mayor's office and there was just a lot of um um discrepancies with pay for
 1:03:57  those positions versus what they would be in the private sector and so here you had we'll say it uh a council Andor
 1:04:05  Administration that was trying to be fiscally conservative and not give themselves raises but then hey things are better now and we have more influx
 1:04:14  of of we'll say some more money and more taxpayer dollars hey let's catch this up
 1:04:21  let's make what's right right and not continue you the pay free so to speak
 1:04:28  and so that's my fear is that if something like this was in place that could really tie our hands and if we got to that point and the whole Council or
 1:04:37  five members said oh yeah we really need to catch up all all we're going to do is just vote this to be gotten rid of or
 1:04:44  amended and so I just don't see it really being you know something that would be
 1:04:52  enforced um for the whole Council if you only had five members that didn't want it so those are my thoughts on it uh but
 1:05:00  I do appreciate like I do know where you're coming from on this um you know when I look on the national level I uh I
 1:05:07  see issues there sometimes but I think on a local level here on a micro level our constituents know I think that we we
 1:05:15  mean well and sometimes we have to make things right and when we'll just use this last example when the mayor is
 1:05:24  almost making the same as his department heads and almost going to make less than a department head or even some people
 1:05:33  that aren't department heads okay that's an issue and we've got to get it caught up and if we were to pass this
 1:05:41  essentially we would just say well we better give that raise otherwise in five years if we don't um your pay is going
 1:05:48  to be behind mayor or clerk's office you know we need to be able to attract Talent as such as we have um
 1:05:56  and I don't want it to tie our hands in the future and and hurt our ability to attract quality candidates to those
 1:06:03  positions so I'll leave it with that councilman Klein did you have something yeah just go on your comment about a
 1:06:09  handful of people deciding to um toss this ordinance out you could say that about that about any of our bloody
 1:06:17  ordinances we five of us can say hey we don't need speed limits so what I'm saying this is a this is
 1:06:26  more like a rule on ourselves you know what I mean that the ordinances for speeding that's different we have neighborhoods this is an ordinance I'm
 1:06:33  saying on oursel or quickly we could just say you know what we need to catch this up like we would had if this
 1:06:39  ordinance was in place for the last 10 years and then we hit this situation this year and we're like whoa we've got
 1:06:47  department heads making near the same as the mayor I probably would have been a council member that would have said well okay let's time to Let's change that
 1:06:56  let's get rid of this or amend it something along that lines I just don't want to put us in a bad situation in the
 1:07:03  future but like I said I mean I I don't disagree that we need to be phisically careful with the city and taxpayers
 1:07:11  money but that's why we do things in the open that's why we're having this meeting that's why we have elections and at the end of the day if they don't like
 1:07:19  the raises that we give I think we're being too greedy or whatever run against this vote us out
 1:07:26  that's all I have to say any other council members yeah I'm make one more comment I'm going to make one more comment then I'll be done with
 1:07:35  this in transparency I have had discussion with mayor
 1:07:42  past and the reason one of the reasons Mayors don't get raises is because the existing
 1:07:51  mayor thinks if he can keep his salary
 1:07:57  low it will limit the people that run against him I've I've had that
 1:08:05  discussion with past mayors those are exact quot quote those are exact quotes
 1:08:13  so we don't want to get ourselves in that position
 1:08:21  um but for the last 15 or 16 years that's been part of the
 1:08:28  problem that's been the issue thank you all right thank you any other council
 1:08:38  members will the president entertain a motion sure you can make a motion yeah I move we pass General ordinance 2024 to
 1:08:47  Second reading in public or yeah to on first reading to Second reading and public hearing second and a motion by councilman Klein a second by councilman
 1:08:56  for I any other discussion Madam clerk roll call Kane no
 1:09:07  Marshall um because I'd like to hear the Public's uh opinion on this I'm GNA vote
 1:09:13  I yes for I yes Brunner no Klein yes
 1:09:20  divine I think I agree with councilman Marshall
 1:09:29  I'll say yes to get it to public hearing Whitten yes calill no mckenley
 1:09:38  no what would the final vote 54 54 okay so that will pass on to Second reading
 1:09:46  public hearing General orance 2024 good discussion thank you council members and we're moving on to General
 1:09:54  ordinance 21 1 -224 amending school zone ordinance first reading an ordinance amending the times
 1:10:02  for the scheduled school zones the Maran police department has requested to have the school zones speed limit restriction
 1:10:10  signage changed from 7:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. to 7 a.m. to 4: p.m. to reflect the
 1:10:19  actual hours the school activities begin and end this will help to Better In Force the areas during school days this
 1:10:28  is brought forth with a favorable recommendation from the Maran traffic commission as discussed on 10:1
 1:10:36  1524 speaking city engineer city planner Mike graft good evening so this is since I've been here
 1:10:45  this is the third time that I've amended this ordinance so we can see that uh
 1:10:53  that schools have changed time and so we try to keep up with uh that in uh in relation to how how the areas are
 1:11:02  patrolled um I did have a um a couple of council people uh that showed some ex
 1:11:11  expressed some concern that that the four o'clock may be too early um for
 1:11:19  that some of the schools go right up until 4 so there might be a little bit of overlap um so I spoke with Captain
 1:11:26  tile from the Marian Police Department that brought this to us uh expressed the concern he was fine with that he just wanted to make sure that everybody
 1:11:35  understood that some schools let out at 2:30 so we're still a 2hour time frame where there's there may not be anybody
 1:11:44  there but um that it's still posted that the signage will still always say um when
 1:11:51  children are present um so on school days uh like we you know like we have
 1:11:58  when there's no school those hours don't uh matter or or speed that speed zone
 1:12:05  doesn't matter so um I'll entertain any questions but I think that he's okay if if you want to go forward and amend it
 1:12:13  to keep it from uh instead of from 730 to 4:30 to change it from 7 to
 1:12:22  4:30 so all right 4:30 they want to keep it 4:30
 1:12:28  now they want they want to amend it so yeah we'll have that discussion on whether we amend that so um yeah no I
 1:12:37  appreciate that I know I was one of them councilwoman Divine um you know we both have kids that go to well marrying
 1:12:44  schools and um yeah I know at the high school they get out like 3506 or something like that and so they're literally just hitting the streets at
 1:12:53  4:00 um I mean my office is right there so I see it they walk right right across my the front of my property so I see
 1:13:00  when they're out there so I do think we should keep that at 4:30 councilman Klein well speaking of schools what's
 1:13:07  the feedback from school officials on this if there is any well again Captain TI brought it to the traffic commission
 1:13:16  uh because he had he had had conversations with the school officials some of them again get out a little bit earlier some of them get out a little
 1:13:23  bit later they didn't seem to be too concerned because probably of the age uh at at the high school that that didn't
 1:13:31  seem to to matter to them but as I told him I said it for for me my position is just to put up the
 1:13:38  signs theirs is to enforce it and what we don't want to get into which we've had discussions is as you can see on
 1:13:46  your on the ordinance itself there's there's several areas on in here where there are school zones and we don't want
 1:13:53  to reflect different times for different areas because I don't think that people if you're driving around if it's a consistency in your head that if I'm a
 1:14:02  school zone this is the hour we don't want to make it at 2:30 in one area and then 4:15 in another I think it gets too convoluted
 1:14:14  so okay any other council members questions well and and I brought this up
 1:14:20  just so that everybody knows the um Mulla gets out at 340 Justice gets out
 1:14:27  at 350 and then the high school at 356 and my main concern was not only the times that they get out of school but
 1:14:36  once you hit Justice Mulla or the high school you're talking about a lot of after school activities so you're talking about a lot of kids that are
 1:14:44  still in moving pieces in those schools granted it's not the whole school but I think that's important that if these
 1:14:51  school zones are specifically to protect the kids than shutting them off at four o'clock when we still have a lot of a
 1:14:59  lot of activity with youth around those buildings I to me personally I don't think that that's the right move I think
 1:15:06  we need to keep it at the 4:30 but I do see the need for the seven because the Elementary School start at 7:15
 1:15:15  so yeah at the end of the day I think it's pretty no no-brainer like wouldn't we all rather
 1:15:21  just beir on the side of caution you know like some kids are still floating to school and then they come out wait a
 1:15:28  couple minutes so yeah um an extra 30 minutes I don't think that hurts uh to keep that at 4:30 it's my opinion any
 1:15:36  other council members I would agree with that with councilman or councilwoman uh Divine and
 1:15:44  you I think it should be at least 4:30 be truthfully honest with you 7 to 4:30 at least um like you said there there
 1:15:53  are a lot of after school activ activities and stragglers if they have to stay after for some particular reason or something I don't think that that
 1:16:01  would be a problem at all do you Mike no no it's 4:30 now so it's you're not
 1:16:08  changing seven seven makes sense you're not changing that at all you're just starting the time earlier sure all we
 1:16:16  again I have an an amended per uh Council president's uh suggestion I brought you an amended ordinance but I
 1:16:24  don't know the process that would be up to legal on whether or not you can accept that so yeah I had him I talked to Mike earlier just because we said
 1:16:33  that might be an idea floated around so it had them just type it up to say 7: a.m. to 4:30 just in case you wanted to
 1:16:39  see it and if we did amend it we had a copy of it for the clerk's office as well so
 1:16:49  yeah any other council members
 1:16:58  okay I would entertain a motion I would make the motion to amend
 1:17:06  General ordinance 21-24 of the school's Zone ordinance to Second reading public hearing with the
 1:17:14  change from 7 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
 1:17:20  second motion by councilman Force second by councilman Whitten any other
 1:17:27  discussion Madame clerk roll call Kane I Marshall I for I I Bruner I kleene yes
 1:17:38  Divine yes Wht yes Cal Gill hi mckenley
 1:17:45  yes thank you Mike appreciate these for for you here yeah if you give the clerks a copy as well they do get one okay okay
 1:17:54  perfect go ahead you need to vote on the main motion now oh that was just to amend this okay yes that was just on the
 1:18:02  amendment thank you Amendment to the amendment all right so we would
 1:18:08  entertain another motion to pass it as amended so
 1:18:16  moved second motion by councilwoman Divine second by councilman for I any other discussion Madame clerk roll call
 1:18:25  Kane I Marshall I flise hi Brunner hi
 1:18:32  Klein yes Divine yes wton yes cgill hi McKinley
 1:18:40  yes all right now General ordinance 21224 amending schoolone ordinance we'll
 1:18:48  go to a second reading public hearing thank you so much Mike appreciate you hanging out to the end with us and then moving on to the last new
 1:18:56  business General ordinance 22-22 repealing the purchasing ordinance first reading an ordinance repealing city of
 1:19:05  Maran Indiana purchasing ordinance number 48 1998 ordinance 48 1998 imposes
 1:19:14  limitations that are more restrictive than Indiana statutes on the topic for example it requires soliciting of quotes
 1:19:23  and bidding for items purch purchased between $25,000 and $50,000 state law allows for purchases
 1:19:31  that are less than $50,000 without receiving bids furthermore ordinance 48 1998 requires items to be made in
 1:19:40  America which is increasingly difficult to do speaking corporate counsel Michael Hots welcome good afternoon The Best For
 1:19:49  Last here today right uh well I'll try to try to be brief here answer any questions you guys may have um so I I
 1:19:59  guess to give you a little context here we as a Class 2 City most of our purchasing takes place uh through the
 1:20:05  Board of Public Works there are various uh statutes uh on the on the record books for how we procure um personal
 1:20:14  property even real property um this ordinance was passed looks like back in 1998 and it seems to to deal
 1:20:22  predominantly with with personal property uh so real estate being a whole different thing uh that would would happen here um the the statutes have
 1:20:31  changed to the years right and so when we procure things it really depends on what's the the value of the um for
 1:20:39  example say we're buying a fire truck fire truck's going to be probably about $800,000 maybe a little bit bit more
 1:20:46  depending on where that is so we're we're we're going to be looking at something like that potentially it's over $150,000 uh we're probably going to a
 1:20:54  bit of that out now on the other hand we may get a police car uh specialty equipment maybe a limited supply of it
 1:21:02  there may be some exceptions that we don't necessarily have to bid that out because of it's it's just an emergency purpose or something like that in
 1:21:09  between uh sort of 50 and $150,000 we're generally going to go out and we're going to sort of solicit three
 1:21:17  bids um we're going to look at them uh over 150 we're going to give out a request for production we're going to ask for an actual bids we're going to
 1:21:25  publish that in the newspaper and then below $50,000 generally the statute says that um the best practices probably to
 1:21:33  maybe solicit but we we wouldn't necessarily um have to in all cases um and so that's kind of the the state
 1:21:42  statutes that we all sort of follow any any any any any city or town is going to kind of Follow that and then with the board of Works being sort of the
 1:21:51  procuring agent that that goes about and actually you know authorizes the purchase of those those
 1:21:57  items the issue with that we're bringing this forward to you today is that one uh
 1:22:06  we don't really know what happened back in 1998 but we know at some point this was passed and was never
 1:22:13  codified so so we're we're under an obligation back in like 1985 uh I believe the the state
 1:22:22  legislator said hey you know you're supposed to really take your ordinances and you're supposed to get them codified in a book so we can look them up right so and and so that people are aware of
 1:22:30  what we've actually done prior to that time what you would have is they would just pass an ordinance and it would kind of be in the record somewhere in the clerk's office and you wouldn't necessarily know and you'd have to go
 1:22:38  back to that year and find it Well we did a pretty big codification in ' 85 then we didn't update it for a while
 1:22:45  then we updated then we didn't update it and and I think the last one we did uh and youa probably could testify to that was was a pretty big one probably cost
 1:22:53  us 20 to 30 ,000 we went and took all our ordinances that we hadn't been updating and sent them off to American
 1:23:01  legal to update them so you can go on the website now and you can go through those well this one never made it there
 1:23:08  and so it just was never in our codification and I I contacted American legal I think somebody must have asked I
 1:23:15  think the city clerk found him I call it the shoe box you know so you go back in there and there's and she had to really kind of finger search through and have to know the year that it was passed and
 1:23:24  actually find this American legal I contacted him said hey they had no no knowledge of it never had it said well has it been revoked I said well you tell
 1:23:32  me we've never had it in there to begin with so uh and to really figure out whether it's been revoked is is kind of a Monumental activity as a sit here
 1:23:40  today I'm not certain that this thing's valid or not you'd have to really go through from 1998 and go through every
 1:23:47  single uh ordinance that was passed since that time period so really what we're faced with is an ordinance that
 1:23:54  that that is is more restrictive right because it says between 225 and $50,000 that U that you have to you know
 1:24:03  solicit some sort of bid that's that's more restricted than the state statute right because know State Statute says under $50,000 you don't have to do that
 1:24:11  the second problematic thing about this is that it does require I would almost consider a finding so if you're if you're procuring
 1:24:19  assets sa you want to go out and buy you know um well buy an automobile so you're going
 1:24:26  to buy a $20,000 or $30,000 automobile if you can find one anymore and and and so you're going to have to make a finding you know on the the second or
 1:24:35  third page of this ordinance um that you know basically it's manufactured the United States that may be difficult we are GM town so it's probably a bad
 1:24:43  example of something but you can think of other products that we buy that it's just it's so mixed anymore right the source of it and so making those
 1:24:50  findings I think is is is is going to be difficult to do I'm not certain that's really even been followed quite honestly right I know it
 1:24:58  hasn't just asking around and so I think it's it's pretty restrictive in that regard so there's really two different reasons I brought to you today that why
 1:25:06  we we'd like just to kind of revert back to the statute to free your hands up a little bit that I'll stop talking answer
 1:25:15  questions thank you so much any council members other questions councilman
 1:25:22  Force so did you uh did you draw up a new ordinance for us to go by or you
 1:25:30  just want to completely get rid of this and go by State Statute because we've always had this ordinance that we've abided by and it it's not between 25 and
 1:25:39  50,000 it's 25,000 and above and as far as the americanmade products there's there's all kinds of uh exclusions on
 1:25:47  that that if if they're not available if the quantities aren't available if their price is unreasonable um then you don't have to
 1:25:54  get American made on that but the way I read the ordinance it says 25,000 and
 1:26:00  above has to be bid out on the open market I don't see where it says between
 1:26:07  25 and 50 the state statute says 50,000 and above but you know that's on demographics if it's Indianapolis or
 1:26:14  Fort Wayne they do much more purchasing than us I'd like to see it stay at 25,000 and get bids for anything over
 1:26:23  25,000 000 I think that's very reasonable request in a city of this size when you're having demolition done
 1:26:31  and other services and supplies that are bought at you know 45,000 30,000 35 to
 1:26:38  where it's competitive it's transparent and the taxpayers know what the money's going for and the council approves it
 1:26:45  and the board of Works approves it if I had another ordinance in front of me I would be more than happy to entertain that but just to repeal this whole
 1:26:53  ordance orance and go by State Statute do you have a copy of the state statute that I could look at okay a couple questions there so I've
 1:27:01  wrote down so hopefully REM if I I missed anything so uh no the ordinance I prepared it's been circulated just to revoke this and go back to the the state
 1:27:10  statute so you really have to kind of read the statute and compare it to state law to to understand what what this is
 1:27:18  doing but um it says for less than $25,000 you don't have to solicit right for State Statute says 50,000 so I'm
 1:27:25  just saying I guess there's that now that range right where whereas before below 50 you wouldn't have to solicit
 1:27:31  now it's if it's below 50 but above 25 then you're you're now how having you're comparing you're comparing State Statute
 1:27:39  to the city ordinance yeah because you got to follow State first plus the yeah the city ordinance we can have a city ordinance that has restrictions and then
 1:27:48  go fall back on state ordinance if we have to if we didn't have an ordinance but we do have an ordinance and I remember when when mau's
 1:27:56  Administration brought this in it was just for the simple purpose of some uh department heads and the mayor would just D out
 1:28:04  $225,000 35,000 and the the council got tired of it at that point because he was delegating it
 1:28:11  to people that weren't involved in you know actually bidding the project or fairness and
 1:28:20  and in getting the project so that's why this was initial enacted I don't think it's unfair at all just to completely
 1:28:27  repeal it and then just go to state statute I I'm not in favor of that I'd like to keep it at 25,000 if we need to
 1:28:36  do an amendment to this ordinance I'd be more than happy to do that and get it cified um good evening councel I wasn't planning on talking today but I just did
 1:28:45  some really quick math and on everyone can do it on your on your phone for inflation calculator so in 20 in two in
 1:28:53  1998 um $25,000 is equivalent to today of $ 48,3
 1:29:01  595 so um if we were keeping up with a sign of the times we could adjust this current ordinance and make it$
 1:29:11  483595 or we could just round it up to $50,000 I think that would be fair to accommodate for the uh 29 29 year
 1:29:19  difference on the price that was set in um 90 no that's not 29 years that's uh
 1:29:26  I'm sorry a 26 year difference um the price that was set then to what it would be compared to to
 1:29:34  now thank you mayor actually uh according to the Federal Reserve Bank $ 48,2
 1:29:42  1261 but you know we're pretty close on that I had looked it up as well but I appreciate you making that that
 1:29:50  observation but go ahead yeah I'm not going according to inflation I'm just saying with the
 1:29:56  services and uh uh Goods that we buy I mean just like demolitions and stuff I
 1:30:04  mean that's just going to open it up to where Department EDS can pick whoever they want to do whatever they want under 50,000 I'm just saying that with
 1:30:12  transparency and fairness that we should have anything over 25,000
 1:30:19  bid in this city I don't think that's unreasonable I'm not talking about inflation or anything comparing back
 1:30:28  25,000 26 years ago I'm just saying today we've got houses that are being torn down and work that's being done
 1:30:35  that's you know comparable to uh over 25,000 some of it's under 25,000 but I
 1:30:43  think 255,000 is a good threshold for the city of Maran so and just to completely repeal this and go by State
 1:30:50  Statute of 50,000 that means that nothing under 50,000 has to be bid on the the administration and department
 1:30:58  heads can just use who they want and spend what they want up to 50,000 I think as a fiduciary body and
 1:31:06  and answering to the taxpayers and the citizens of Marian we should have a threshold of 25,000 and above that has
 1:31:14  to be bid out that's my opinion and I would have loved for you to bring me a
 1:31:22  new ordinance or or state statute to where there was something that I could go by um but just to say I just want to
 1:31:29  repeal this and get rid of it that's yeah okay so I think the
 1:31:38  second question you had there too was was about you see I'm I'm happy to um provide that it's a small purchase statute is basically um what it what
 1:31:47  provides um so thank you appreciate that any other
 1:31:57  council members go ahead vice president cgo the the state statute supersede our
 1:32:03  ordinances yes okay well I feel like I I do understand the
 1:32:11  inflation that's it kind of went back to our thing from before that Maran is just staying so far back in history we got to
 1:32:19  get things up to date and state statute proceeds ours anyway so I don't have I I
 1:32:27  don't have a problem going with the the state statute of 50,000 that's just
 1:32:34  my all right don't we approve these bills
 1:32:41  anyway I mean aren't we now approving every single payment that's coming through yeah but I'm talking out on a bid process this is bidding but wouldn't
 1:32:50  that be up to the mayor to make sure his department heads are properly bidding but if if it's if it's under 50,000 they don't have to is what I'm saying but it
 1:32:59  would still be up to the mayor to make that choice on if his department heads need to bid if it's under 50 he wouldn't have to he wouldn't do it he wouldn't
 1:33:07  have to but that doesn't mean he he wouldn't he wouldn't do it I'm just telling you that's why this is before us is because they want the threshold of 50
 1:33:14  and above and not mess with anything under 50 and I think that anything 25,000 and above fairly should be bid
 1:33:24  out whether it's one bidder finally complies with it or three at least we know we're getting a competitive price
 1:33:31  and it's transparent and we're just not handing out contracts and awards to anybody we want to hand out to that's
 1:33:38  why this ordinance was generally made so 522
 1:33:46  Dash 3-3 does allow a governmental body to adopt their own more restrict RVE
 1:33:54  rules um the problem I have with the ordinance that we have now is that it actually
 1:34:04  um where was that at I had it highlighted here I lost it
 1:34:12  um I'll come back to that um but I will say it it allows that but the state also
 1:34:21  set their own thresholds so if you don't have any rules or more restrictive rules then you
 1:34:28  have to abide by the state rules and they actually have good stuff in here about how you have to make a good
 1:34:35  faith um negotiations performance uh contracts there are quite a few rules so
 1:34:42  council members are welcome to look up 5-22 um three I would say more three 5-22
 1:34:51  D3 um and there's some subsections underneath that that kind of go over that um the state's
 1:34:59  requirements um yeah 50 essentially 50,000 is the limit there are a lot of
 1:35:07  rules that the state has already established um and these were actually changed and added after
 1:35:15  1998 so I'm you know I'm not the legal mind here we have Marty here and we have Michael here but uh I would probably go
 1:35:24  on a limb to say that in 1998 actually I think the section that the that ordinance referenced to has been
 1:35:32  repealed and then they the state adopted new rules maybe more restrictive rules than they previously had because I know Marty and I we had this discussion a
 1:35:41  couple weeks ago we went through this with a fine Toth comb and um realized that that I I think the
 1:35:48  state added and made it more restrictive on other parts of purchase ing after this 1998 one was passed just the big
 1:35:58  difference here is the dollar amount the state doesn't require you to buy American maid I do think we should definitely try and buy American maid at
 1:36:06  every opportunity we can but it is 2024 not 1998 and is extremely difficult uh
 1:36:13  and then how do you define American maid what if has foreign well who may who defines that right and so to put it up
 1:36:21  for our city heads and Department people to go well well is that 60% more or less you know what I mean so it is it it's a
 1:36:28  difficult one to follow I just think the big one here is the 50,000 but the state does have and its own definitions um a lot of it was amended
 1:36:36  in 2005 and change and then again in 2021 so the state has been keeping an eye on this I don't have a problem
 1:36:44  repealing this I'm okay with the 50,000 according to inflation uh 25 to the 50 is pretty close um and I I just don't
 1:36:53  have an issue with that and and really I mean here's I would say is that I have no problem repealing this um but I would
 1:37:03  entertain any council member if they want to if anything this thing should be repealed and just be completely
 1:37:10  Rewritten um in a different way or or or maybe have a more deeper legal discussion of what what the state is
 1:37:18  requiring here what do we need to add to it other than if you want to make it more restrictive than the 50,000 because there are a lot of rules already in
 1:37:26  place that the 52233 already establishes so councilman for well I would recommend
 1:37:34  then in the meantime and I don't totally disagree with you on that but I would recommend that we send this into committee and and write a new
 1:37:43  ordinance before we repeal this at least we have something to go by until we come up with a new ordinance and then we can
 1:37:51  get with the administration and um the council and let everybody have some input into it and get our own ordinance
 1:37:59  to where you know we can have one locally the only reason that the state would come into play with that is if we didn't have an ordinance or somebody
 1:38:07  would contest it and fight it then it would have to fall back on state ordinance but I would recommend that we
 1:38:15  send it to committee and let's come up with a new ordinance and table this until we come up with a new ordinance there's no big
 1:38:22  rush or hurry any other council members have thoughts
 1:38:34  input Michael Mayor any
 1:38:45  input go ahead mayor counselor any reason why coun man Ford I is thought is
 1:38:55  a bad idea um you know I don't I don't like to
 1:39:02  call anybody anybody's ISD is bad it's just you know we have some we have differing ways of arriving places but I do think that um with the uh adjustment
 1:39:12  over time so we one of the things that was brought up was Demolition so the demo a house in in 1998 is a significant difference in price and equipment and
 1:39:21  everything to now so everything um adjust over time and so I think that us having a ordinance that is
 1:39:30  restrictive uh more restrictive than the state to a price that is now adjusted so for example the houses we're tearing
 1:39:38  down now it ranges from we do obviously do bids on this our apartment department has do a great job um even on the black
 1:39:46  elimination stuff that we're doing um commissioner fight did solicit multiple companies on getting those removed but just on that one lane every Everything
 1:39:55  has adjusted in price as we discussed on many different things tonight um so for us to be uh beholding to something that
 1:40:02  was in 1998 from the same exact way that it is now I think that is you know kind of negtive on our part and I think that
 1:40:09  um we should you know try to be do what we can to be to step up with the times and I think one of the first things that
 1:40:16  we can do is um repeal this ordinance to go with what the state H has required
 1:40:23  um and they um due diligence of thinking many many times and many many people on how to move forward with that so that would be uh my hope to move forward with
 1:40:31  this but I think that we will find a solution one way or another I think this the second thing
 1:40:41  not beside the the price is that the way I look at this ordinances is that we go
 1:40:48  and buy something that say you um say it's at $6,000 and say do you bid it at
 1:40:56  this point you almost have to go back to board of Works to do a finding of whatever you're buying so um so again uh supplies are not manufactured in the
 1:41:04  United States and reasonably available quantities and so I've got to figure out what the composition of the the good is how it's Mark that may be difficult and
 1:41:12  then make that finding and the price of supplies manufactured the United States exceeds by an reasonable amount the price of available and comparable
 1:41:19  supplies manufactured elsewhere so they got to figure out well okay if I'm GNA pay more for it now um because I can get
 1:41:27  it a little bit cheaper over here now I'm going to pay a little bit more of it but is that reasonable is that an unreasonable amount so I got to make that finding
 1:41:37  um the quality of the supplies manufactur the United States is substantially less than the quality of comparable price available Supply so you really got to go through and now what
 1:41:45  the board of Works has to navigate uh that that I think that's pretty difficult to do so I think that's
 1:41:52  another reason I'm just I just don't know how you mechanically go about navigating it as it is yeah I just feel
 1:41:58  like this is it it's so Antiquated and and Marty correct me if I'm wrong but
 1:42:06  when we dug through this um the they had to at the time the state
 1:42:12  required the local bodies to pass something it was a requirement um they have since repealed
 1:42:20  that now you may it went from a sh to May so the only reason that they wrote this and passed it at the time and it
 1:42:28  even says it at the bottom this is mandated by state law and needs to be enacted immediately so the city was forced every city was forced to do this
 1:42:37  and they had to put something in place and since then the state has realized was a little much and they
 1:42:44  repealed that and the state has then put its own rules in place that are more
 1:42:50  that make more sense to for cities to operate um and so you Gary Council M
 1:42:59  Force excuse me uh I'm I'm not opposed if if the council wants to make something more
 1:43:07  restrictive I'm I'm good with the $50,000 limit but my opinion is that the way this one is written I think it's
 1:43:16  just totally Antiquated it's just you can't even hardly follow this I to be honest with you I mean I I would love to
 1:43:24  see if the city actually really followed this since 1998 truthfully um because one it wasn't ever codified no one ever
 1:43:31  could find it um and two it is it I mean I just can't imagine the amount of time that would be
 1:43:38  spent to try and figure this out which again I think leads to why the state repealed that because it was
 1:43:47  overreaching too restrictive put too much on the local government to try and follow these rules so I still stand I
 1:43:55  think we should just repeal this and if we feel like there should be something more restrictive or or whatever then
 1:44:03  spend time council members are welcome to dig into the Indiana code and go okay maybe we should add something to that um
 1:44:12  but in the meantime I just don't see a need to keep this in force but it's my opinion Council woman for I or Council
 1:44:18  women uh Divine look been saying Council councilman for more tonight um so I know
 1:44:26  that the state put the updated purchasing requirements to the 50,000 back in 2016 so we're talking about
 1:44:33  eight years ago that the state itself increased it to 50,000 and the reason they did that was because the expense
 1:44:40  and the time was such a burden on the municipality in order to do the bid process at
 1:44:47  25,000 and so they went to the 50,000 and then the quote process up to 15 50 and then the sealed bid process after
 1:44:56  150 because it was the the time frame and the amount I mean Mike can probably tell us or even you know if the
 1:45:04  controller were here she could tell us what it costs us to do a sealed bid process the amount of money that we
 1:45:12  spend on ads and we spend on sending out solicitations and making sure we meet all those requirements and then the
 1:45:19  review process I mean you're talking hu you're talking enough money that that
 1:45:26  $50,000 purchase the difference there is probably less than what the whole process overall ends up being because it
 1:45:35  and it takes so long I mean you're talking about putting it out having a certain time frame you know aside from the fact that there's emergency Provisions but most of the stuff doesn't
 1:45:43  have to be done under emergencies but it takes a lot of time and effort and there's a reason why the state went to
 1:45:50  the 50,000 and they went to it eight years ago and most municipalities at that time under uh aim and some of the
 1:45:59  other organizations that we belong to probably recommended that it be changed to that and the fact that we're now here eight years later and there's been
 1:46:06  another update to the state statute in 21 since then so I think that if we want to continue to be Progressive we need to
 1:46:13  repeal this and go to the more current state statutes my opinion I agree the state legislature I
 1:46:20  think um definitely keeps an eye on we'll say inflation and all of those rules aim is always keeping an eye on
 1:46:26  that and so even if we were to put a different amount I mean essentially we've got to review it every year and
 1:46:34  then every time the state legislature makes a change we're going to have to ask our legal council check it make sure we're not uh you know there's a home
 1:46:43  rule issue here and um this creates more burden and then let's I'm just going to
 1:46:50  say this 1998 times were different bidding was access to things was different than it was today so back then
 1:46:58  you had to call suppliers whether it was computer or whatever you had to call suppliers you didn't have access to
 1:47:05  shopping instantly whereas now our city and anyone really all of us I mean if I want to buy ink for my printer I can
 1:47:13  know the prices of 50 different places within 13 seconds and I'm going to get the lowest price and so I just think you know when this was passed in '98 it was
 1:47:21  a different world I think it it it was easier to purchase something at a higher price because it was so hard to find and
 1:47:30  shop around you actually had to physically go to stores and um but now we can we can shop price pretty quickly
 1:47:37  and I'm I'm sure the I would put confidence in our city government they they are trying to find the least expensive but best product for our
 1:47:46  taxpayers so uh any other council members
 1:47:55  all right I would entertain a motion Mr President I would make the motion that we pass General ordinance
 1:48:04  22224 onto second reading public hearing second motion by vice president cgill second by